The real IL2 focus group (Everyone come in here)

[HauptmannMolders]

Of course we'd all love to have these things and frankly I did expect these features to be here so yes I'm dissappointed BUT I'm sick of people whining about every single little detail of this game. This type of moaning is what makes even slightly more casual gamers think sim fans are losers and make no mistake this game is trying to straddle both sides ON PURPOSE. Lets be honest it would appear at this stage, prior to its release, that this game is going to set a new bench mark for flight games on consoles. That is all I ask. We may be abe to get pickier on the second edition but for now the guys that have made this game have poured untold millions of dollars and tens of thousands of hours into a game that if unsuccessful may ruin their company. I for one want every espect to be perfect but even if it is missing a few things the first time around, I am extremely excited and very grateful for the work they have done.

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[guiltyspark]

Originally Posted by HauptmannMolders

Of course we'd all love to have these things and frankly I did expect these features to be here so yes I'm dissappointed BUT I'm sick of people whining about every single little detail of this game. This type of moaning is what makes even slightly more casual gamers think sim fans are losers and make no mistake this game is trying to straddle both sides ON PURPOSE. Lets be honest it would appear at this stage, prior to its release, that this game is going to set a new bench mark for flight games on consoles. That is all I ask. We may be abe to get pickier on the second edition but for now the guys that have made this game have poured untold millions of dollars and tens of thousands of hours into a game that if unsuccessful may ruin their company. I for one want every espect to be perfect but even if it is missing a few things the first time around, I am extremely excited and very grateful for the work they have done.

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I agree with the whining part , but this really is an important feature if you are going to have a "simulator" mode in your game

[Yossarian]

It should be in BUT I don't think it will 'destroy' MP because accelerated stalls are in the game, you will not be able to just yank back on the stick unless you want to enter a spin. As Raw Kryptonite say's I promise to close my eyes in a 6g turn and let go of the stick, I don't really do high negative g's so now worries about red outs.

[Anton Yudintsev]

Actually, it is not that easy at all.
Different human bodies will react differently to certain G-forces. True, that on some (let's say 6g) most of pilots will be uncomfortable. But it is not that simple even in that case - effect accumulates, and have long effect, even if you are flying normally, already, you can still be readout/blackened for a while. It is confusing players.
And adding too much choises for MP isn't also good enough - imagine 16 different sessions with different settings and only 2-3 people in each.

I understand your reasons, of course.
Moreover, it were actually us who made this feature. And it is painful to know that the feature that was made, implemented, tested, polished and even presented to public already - isn't in the game now. There were reasons for it. Probably, not good enough for some of you - but we have to make choices all the time, a lot of them.

P.S. You probably don't know, but in October'08, our Arcade mode was much much more closer to current Realistic mode. And Realistic was a bit more close to current Simulation.
Focus tests showed, that average players are confused with that. And publisher even tried to force us to release game without 'Simulation' setting at all - but we insist on it.
Currently, Arcade is much more arcade, but Simulation is still very close to what it was. Yeah, there are no black-outs, and in Campaign (not in Single Missions) we have infinite ammo and fuel, and you can turn HUDs on (but you can turn them off, too), but it is still Simulation, with cockpit view, spins, stalls, flaps controls, no assists etc.
We had a fight with publisher to make flightstick support - they didn't care about it all, and were afraid that it slow down development and risk 1st parties Approvals (more TCRs for peripherial). We've worked directly with Saitek/Thrustmaster/MS to get all samples, and have done flightstick support on our own risk, to make sure the spirit of IL-2 will survive, and flighsim fans will be able to get pleasure from the game.
Yeah, currently everyone, including our publisher understand that it was right to do flighstick support/Simulation mode/etc. Flightsim fans are small audience, less than 2% of all gamers that will buy the game - but they are loyal, they build community, and more important, that is what the game is about - controlling the plane and fighting in the air, not simply arcade like Red Baron. It is also good, that we made Arcade settings more simple, they were right about it. If you look over previews, most of press (and they ARE hardcore players, not casual ones) still feel that even Arcade like it is flight simulation, and almost are not able to control plane in Simulation mode... So there is no just one side of the medal.
But please, do not explain me that absence of blackouts is ruining the game - that is a. not true, b. I know more about what can really ruin the game. You can just play the demo, anf not buy the game, if you really think so. It will be sad, though

[jt_medina]

Anton you are making a BIG mistake.
This is an important feature. You take it out, don´t call it simulator.

[Kartman013]

Oh well, perhaps next time. At least we are moving in the right direction and getting a potentially amazing flight sim for consoles.

[Anton Yudintsev]

Originally Posted by jt_medina

Anton you are making a BIG mistake.
This is an important feature. You take it out, don´t call it simulator.

I suppose, there are now a lot of flight sims on a market, and everyone of othem (except ours), has red-outs?

I've never called the game anyhow, except IL-2 Sturmovik:Birds of Prey.
We are making it, you are voting for it - with your money, and your (possible) loyalty. If it is so important for you - OK, do not even try demo. Or, buy the game, and vote for blackouts in this (and others) polls - than we'll make it in sequel.

But my guess is that this feature is not what make flight sim game a real simulation. Flight sim - by definition - is the simulation of the flight, of the plane dynamics - not of the pilot's body reaction to it. Should 'real' flightsim simulate vomit on a spins as well?

[juz1]

Originally Posted by Anton Yudintsev

I suppose, there are now a lot of flight sims on a market, and everyone of othem (except ours), has red-outs?

I've never called the game anyhow, except IL-2 Sturmovik:Birds of Prey.
We are making it, you are voting for it - with your money, and your (possible) loyalty. If it is so important for you - OK, do not even try demo. Or, buy the game, and vote for blackouts in this (and others) polls - than we'll make it in sequel.

But my guess is that this feature is not what make flight sim game a real simulation. Flight sim - by definition - is the simulation of the flight, of the plane dynamics - not of the pilot's body reaction to it. Should 'real' flightsim simulate vomit on a spins as well?

The point being vomit, unless it really flies up and covers your googles, wouldn't hinder flying...black/red outs and the ensuing slight loss of stick control would interfer with extreme maneouvres and consequently handling...but there are times a combat pilot would risk it in extremis. It would add to gameplay...
Just sayin...
________
Gm foods

[jt_medina]

Originally Posted by Anton Yudintsev

I suppose, there are now a lot of flight sims on a market, and everyone of othem (except ours), has red-outs?

I've never called the game anyhow, except IL-2 Sturmovik:Birds of Prey.
We are making it, you are voting for it - with your money, and your (possible) loyalty. If it is so important for you - OK, do not even try demo. Or, buy the game, and vote for blackouts in this (and others) polls - than we'll make it in sequel.

But my guess is that this feature is not what make flight sim game a real simulation. Flight sim - by definition - is the simulation of the flight, of the plane dynamics - not of the pilot's body reaction to it. Should 'real' flightsim simulate vomit on a spins as well?

For sure I´ll try the demo. But I have been a fan of the original IL2 and this BOP has part of his name. IL2 made history and I expect at least from this BOP to be as realistic as the original IL2 is.

You want to take this feature out?. Ok, But don´t expect people say that it is an ultra realistic sim. Sorry this is what ""hardcore"" simmers are gonna think, including me. Blackouts play an important role and have been included since my first 16bits simulator.

To me this lower the standar of this sim, may be after I try out the demo I will change my mind but to me and for many others fans of IL2 are gonna see this like a weird decision.

You get angry because of my comments?.
Sr, critics said politely are good to improve things. I am not being rude but just trying to let you know how important this feature for many people is.

There you have the votes of the people. is not it enough to let you know what people really want?.

[Rittmeister86]

Originally Posted by Raw Kryptonite

I'd rather have the game at this point than wait on one feature. If I pull 6 g's I'll just close my eyes until I level out.

Ha Ha I'll go with that idea!

Originally Posted by HauptmannMolders

Of course we'd all love to have these things and frankly I did expect these features to be here so yes I'm dissappointed BUT I'm sick of people whining about every single little detail of this game. This type of moaning is what makes even slightly more casual gamers think sim fans are losers and make no mistake this game is trying to straddle both sides ON PURPOSE. Lets be honest it would appear at this stage, prior to its release, that this game is going to set a new bench mark for flight games on consoles. That is all I ask. We may be abe to get pickier on the second edition but for now the guys that have made this game have poured untold millions of dollars and tens of thousands of hours into a game that if unsuccessful may ruin their company. I for one want every espect to be perfect but even if it is missing a few things the first time around, I am extremely excited and very grateful for the work they have done.

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Amen brother!