the raw numbers

[nearmiss]

Get onto google and do some Eastern front WW2 search. You'll get your information that way.

There are thousands of WW2 sites

[*Buzzsaw*]

Salute

The VVS (Soviet) official history of the airwar admits losses of approx. 60,000 Soviet aircraft to the Germans and their allies. The Soviets claim approx. 80,000 Axis aircraft destroyed.

There is no official Luftwaffe history, and many records were lost, but from what remains, historians were able to determine that approx. 15,000 German aircraft were lost on the East front.

Information on Finnish and other nationality losses are more available, and were under two thousand.

[secretone]

Does anyone have any idea how many German planes were lost in the West - just to compare?

[yarbles]

Thanks Buzzsaw - I appreciate the info. I'll shoot it over to my bro. I'll be blown away.

[Furio]

I can’t dispute how historians determined that approximately 15.000 German aircraft were lost on Eastern Front. Counting only the major types, Luftwaffe fielded no less than 90.000 planes during the war.
The vast majority was obviously destroyed or damaged beyond repair in air combat or on the ground, or captured by advancing ground forces. A sizable part was certainly lost in non-combat related accidents, while really few, if any, planes managed to reach the end of their service life.
Guessing numbers is obviously difficult, but some estimates can reasonably be reached.
Counting as 20% of total the non combat-related losses, Luftwaffe lost at least 70.000 aircraft. The majority of those losses was on the Eastern Front. If I’m not grossly wrong, that number should be not lower than 40.000.

[rakinroll]

Originally Posted by Furio

I can’t dispute how historians determined that approximately 15.000 German aircraft were lost on Eastern Front. Counting only the major types, Luftwaffe fielded no less than 90.000 planes during the war.
The vast majority was obviously destroyed or damaged beyond repair in air combat or on the ground, or captured by advancing ground forces. A sizable part was certainly lost in non-combat related accidents, while really few, if any, planes managed to reach the end of their service life.
Guessing numbers is obviously difficult, but some estimates can reasonably be reached.
Counting as 20% of total the non combat-related losses, Luftwaffe lost at least 70.000 aircraft. The majority of those losses was on the Eastern Front. If I’m not grossly wrong, that number should be not lower than 40.000.

Pfff...

[Furio]

Originally Posted by rakinroll

Pfff...

Sure. Pfff is the correct number.

[JoeA]

Originally Posted by Furio

I can’t dispute how historians determined that approximately 15.000 German aircraft were lost on Eastern Front. Counting only the major types, Luftwaffe fielded no less than 90.000 planes during the war.
The vast majority was obviously destroyed or damaged beyond repair in air combat or on the ground, or captured by advancing ground forces. A sizable part was certainly lost in non-combat related accidents, while really few, if any, planes managed to reach the end of their service life.
Guessing numbers is obviously difficult, but some estimates can reasonably be reached.
Counting as 20% of total the non combat-related losses, Luftwaffe lost at least 70.000 aircraft. The majority of those losses was on the Eastern Front. If I’m not grossly wrong, that number should be not lower than 40.000.

I am not sure that's correct what are your sources for the claim?

[Furio]

I’m not sure either. It’s only my opinion, but my reasoning is simple.
Main German bombers, He 111H, Do 217, Ju 87 and Ju 88, roughly 25.000 built.
Main German transport (Ju 52) roughly 5.000 built.
Main German fighters (Bf 109 e 110, Me 410, Fw 190) more than 60.000.
Total of these types built: 90.000.
Almost all of them were lost by war’s end, when Eastern Front reached Berlin, and Russians seized what remained of Luftwaffe.
I consider as combat-related losses aircraft destroyed or damaged beyond repair in air combat, by A.A. fire, or on the ground by strafing and bombing. I consider as combat-related losses also aircrafts captured by advancing ground forces.
This leaves out only aircraft lost in non-combat related accidents, or that reached end of service life. I guessed this number at 20% of total aircraft losses (18.000). This number seems reasonable to me, but obviously I can be wrong.
I guessed also that Luftwaffe suffered “more than half” of its losses on Eastern Front. I’ve read that the actual ratio was 1.7 times of Western Front losses, but even considering a lower percentage, say 60%, the end number is near 43.200.
And that’s it.

[Igo kyu]

Originally Posted by Furio

The majority of those losses was on the Eastern Front.

I think that's quite possibly mistaken.

It is apparently a fact that most of the German high scoring aces made those scores in the east. The scores were overstated probably, but the RAF overscored too, and it's probably not disproportionate, allegedly. Again allegedly the Germans found the east to be a target rich environment, and most of those targets undertrained, and under performing.

Stalin was prone to throwing numbers at his enemies when he couldn't match them in quality, in the air as on the ground. I've read that many I16s were sent into battle with no sights except markings painted on the windscreen.

German losses in the west were higher per allied aircraft, because of superior western allied training and aircraft. Even so, the "rodeo"s and "circus"es of 1942 and 1943 were apparently not profitable for the RAF and USAAF in hindsight, though they seemed so at the time due to overclaiming.

There probably were figures, there seem to be figures for almost everything in the west, the nazis were obsessive about documentation. If, as I suspect, there are numbers for the western front, it may be necessary to find those, and subtract them from the total to get a figure for the east, which I think there is a probability will turn out to be less than half.

The war wasn't a game that had to be fair or people wouldn't play, if they "didn't play" they would probably die anyway, so they did the best they could, even if the odds were hugely against them, because they had no better option.

The "blinding sun" campaign for the USSR isn't much fun, but it is probably as accurate a rendering of the actual eastern front as is possible without making it not a playable game at all.

Originally Posted by Thunderbolt56

There have been times I try to put the Eastern Front into perspective for people that are, say, less in-the-know. What i usually do is tell them a couple things that are fact and easily found.

1. 80% of all German ground casualties in WWII were on the Eastern Front.

2. The largest, bloodiest, most costly battle (in human life) in the history of mankind was the Battle for Stalingrad.

I don't doubt any of that is true at all. The Germans had it much easier in the air.