4.13 development update discussion and feedback

[Treetop64]

I agree on the other point made by yourself and Majorfailure that it is more accurate to say the Ace AI does very stupid things against lower skilled AI that gets them into trouble. At any rate, I wish something could be done about that. While the AI is in many ways much better than it used to be, this issue is still a very annoying one.

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by Treetop64

At any rate, I wish something could be done about that. While the AI is in many ways much better than it used to be, this issue is still a very annoying one.

d'accord

[CzechTexan]

So my thoughts about the A/I were right! A few days ago I just noticed that the Roookie enemy kicked Veteran butts and that something was definitely wrong. A/I has improved but this Super-Rookie issue needs to be fixed. Until then I guess I won't use Rookies but will use Average A/I instead.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by CzechTexan

So my thoughts about the A/I were right! A few days ago I just noticed that the Roookie enemy kicked Veteran butts and that something was definitely wrong. A/I has improved but this Super-Rookie issue needs to be fixed. Until then I guess I won't use Rookies but will use Average A/I instead.

Just to fact check things, I ran a couple of 16 vs. 16 AI missions.

QMB. Bessarabia Map, no flak or objective, 1000 m altitude, no advantage to either side, clear weather. 16 Ace Bf-109E-7 vs. 16 Rookie I-16 Type 24.

Results were consistently massive victory for the Bf-109s, with a 16:1 or better kill ratio.

The only unrealistic rookie AI behavior I saw was on the first mission were a rookie I-16 was able to follow a slightly damaged Bf-109 into a vertical climb, score crippling damage on it at 400 m, and then come out above the Bf-109 at the top of the loop to kill it.

Since I had "Arcade Mode" on, I got to see AI behavior commands as well. Bf-109 were attacking by flight, with the lead plane consistently using energy attack, and the other three planes in the flight performing various forms of defensive cover.

I-16 used turn attacks, and periodically used defensive moves, as well as "panicking". In one case, I watched a slightly damaged I-16 accidentally enter a spin and crash.

So, based on those results, I'd say that AI is pretty good and returns the expected results.

If there's a problem for me, it's that Ace AI doesn't use energy fighting tactics quite as well as it might.

Obviously, though, there are situations where there are problems with Ace/Veteran AI using stupid tactics.

[CzechTexan]

OK, maybe I was jumping the gun by condemning the A/I. Maybe the situation in my mission put the Veterans in a bad position to counter effectively.

[71stMastiff]

Steam will not update to this version> anything above 4.12.2m why?

[Music]

My only gripes with A.I. is their tendency to all focus on my plane, seems every mission, first pass onto the furball, and half the A.I. have decided to target me, not my wing men, just me, shoulder shooting and even colliding when there are four (4) or five (5) 100m off my 6.
(I fly invincible, & unlimited ammo off line, so I just wait them out)

And their ability to see through the tail of their plane, even when they are chasing a target.

And I had a bunch of B-29 gunners targeting me through a cloud today, right through, neither of us was in the cloud, it was between us, and all these tracers flying out of it.

They tend to stay in burning planes too long, and they pull a lot of neg G's.

But some times, most of the time, they act like, or seem to act like real planes, and you forget it's a game.

.2 is Dl'ing now, thanks DT

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by CzechTexan

OK, maybe I was jumping the gun by condemning the A/I. Maybe the situation in my mission put the Veterans in a bad position to counter effectively.

I'm not questioning your experience. I think there are situations where Ace or Veteran AI isn't as "smart" as it should be, and where Rookies are too good. But, initial conditions and altitude might make a big difference.

In the "furball" missions I generated, I noticed a tendency for the Ace Bf-109 to follow Rookie I-16 pilots down to near ground level (albeit later in the fight when odds were massively in favor of the Germans), rather than maintaining their altitude. Early in the fight, the Bf-109 weren't as aggressive about getting and maintaining an altitude advantage as they could be.

In all cases, Ace wingmen weren't as good as they could be about covering the lead plane's rear. The one Bf-109 shootdown I saw could have easily been prevented had the lead plane's #2 maintained proper position, or if the AI was trained to do a proper "drag and bag" or "Thatch weave" team attack.

While it's realistic, there were also a few cases where I observed "shoulder shooting" by AI planes - especially late in the fight when there were lots of Germans and few Soviets. But, Aces should have better situational awareness and fire discipline, both to stay out of the way of a friendly plane's line of fire, and to stop shooting when a friendly plane pops up between them and the target.

[eduzk]

An idea that I would find interesting: formation tactics, according to historical situation.

A flight's tactics would be set for each flight pre-mission (and be found in your mission briefing). The leader-wingman -pair system, that every fighter AI currently uses, was historically one of the Axis' tactical advantages early in the war.

Apparently the Soviet doctrine, before they learned from their experiences, was that a flight of three would stay in close formation in combat, and everyone would fire their guns when the leader did.

A rookie AI could of course get excited and completely ignore any tactics he's supposed to follow.