4.13 development update discussion and feedback

[Sita]

in fact ... all that work with new squads deserve to be new DevUp)))

Motorhead VMF-214 made HUGE work with it...

[shelby]

for greece check here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Italian_War
The Royal Hellenic Air Force (Ellinikí Vasilikí Aeroporía, RHAF) had to face the numerically and technologically superior Regia Aeronautica. It comprised 45 fighters, 24 light bombers, nine reconnaissance aircraft, about 65 auxiliary aeroplanes and 28 naval cooperation aircraft. It consisted of the 21st, 22nd, 23rd and 24th pursuit squadrons, the 31st, 32nd, 33rd bomber squadrons, the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th military cooperation squadrons, the 2828 Independent Military Cooperation Flight and the 11th, 12th and 13th naval cooperation squadrons. At the outbreak of the war the operational combat fleet of the Greek Air Force counted 24 PZL P.24 and nine Bloch MB.151 fighters, as well as eleven Bristol Blenheim Mk IV, ten Fairey Battle B.1 and eight Potez 633 B2 bombers.[83] Serviceable ground attack and naval support aircraft included about nine Breguet 19 two-seater biplane bombers, 15 Henschel Hs 126 reconnaissance and observation aircraft, 17 Potez 25A observation aircraft, nine Fairey III amphibious reconnaissance aircraft, 12 Dornier Do 22G torpedo bombers, and 9 Avro Anson maritime reconnaissance aircraft.[84] The main air bases were located in Sedes, Larissa, Dekeleia, Faleron, Eleusis, Nea Anchialos and Maleme.[83]

Britain

On 22 October 1940, six days before the Italian invasion of Greece, despite the Italian invasion of Egypt, the RAF Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief Middle East in Cairo was ordered to prepare squadrons for Greece, based on Ultra decodes and other sources that an Italian invasion of Greece was imminent.[85] The RAF first sent 30 Squadron, consisting of one flight of Blenheim IF night fighters and one flight of Blenheim I light bombers, that were based at Athens-Eleusis airfield.[86] Soon afterwards, six Vickers Wellington medium bombers were detached from 70 Squadron and a flight of Blenheim Is from 84 Squadron arrived. All RAF assets were placed under the command of Air vice-marshal John D'Albiac.[87] The RAF aircraft participated in the Greek counter-offensive that began on 14 November, with No. 84 Squadron operating forward from Menidi.[88] A few days later, the Gloster Gladiator fighters of 80 Squadron moved forward to Trikala, causing significant losses to the Regia Aeronautica.[89] 211 Squadron with Blenheim Is, followed before the end of November, joining 84 Squadron at Menidi and 80 Squadron moved to Yannina, about 64 kilometres (40 mi) from the Albanian border. In the first week of December, 14 Gladiators were transferred from the RAF to the RHAF.[90]

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by shelby

for greece check here

Adding the Greek campaigns to the game would be hard. You'd have to add so many new objects, maps and aircraft that it would almost be a whole new game!

It makes more sense to just add the Greek squadrons which served in the RAF, with the appropriate awards, voice packs, etc.

Getting squadron names/numbers, ranks, awards, and national markings graphics for small air forces is easy. Getting squadron insignia is harder. Getting squadron codes and command hierarchy info is even harder, sometimes impossible. Info on tactics, readiness, training levels, etc. is also hard to find.

[Sita]

i must say few words about Motorhead VMF-214.

he is very good company maker .. you can find his works on Aviaskins ...

some time ago he realized that he need for his campaings some squads which isn't in il2 .... and he spend some about two years for it ...

my point is ... he added mosty that squads which he considired like important for company makers ... and for his self at first ...

and now his answer for your questions ...

But, did he get the early war units rather than just the "numbered" USAAF air forces?

early war units was addad only that which could be used and useful in some campaings ...

Did he correct errors in the existing order of battle?

yep ....

I've added all the transport, liaison, recon, and air rescue squadrons to the USAAF OOB, but only when they were actually in combat.

i added Transportation squads that I need to campaign intelligence and other similar there to a minimum. Well, it makes no sense add all connected Squadron, which flew some L-5, the Sentinel, because the aircraft will be only a few times.

Do these designations include wing and command information, or is it just a list of numbered squadrons? The first is better for both
players and mission builders

No signs of belonging to the wing and the more command is not present. In contrast to the USAAF, RAF squadrons, most of the war more than once
transferred from one wing to the other. In this situation, it makes no sense to add more of the same squadron with only a postscript to a different wing.

But, by doing that, you'll have the wrong language pack! Your Czech and French squadrons flying for the RAF will speak British English,
and your Dutch squadrons flying for the RAAF will speak Australian dialect English!

As far as I know, foreign pilots in the RAF specifically studied English. French or Polish, then again, if I am not mistaken, all
It is forbidden to use in radio, not to create chaos in communication with ground controllers.



you are going to use the fact that the offer to add?
you are going to do the campaign on a high level of detail, and will use all of these connected and rescue squads?

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Sita

he is very good company maker .. you can find his works on Aviaskins ...

It seems that he's spent a lot more time and effort on the project than I have, so I'll defer to him.

Originally Posted by Sita

early war units was addad only that which could be used and useful in some campaings ...

Fair enough. Many of the early war units I added would mostly be useful for modded maps, like the US Far East Air Force. US Middle East Air Force and Hawaiian AF would be useful for existing maps, however.

Originally Posted by Sita

i added Transportation squads that I need to campaign intelligence and other similar there to a minimum. Well, it makes no sense add all connected Squadron, which flew some L-5, the Sentinel, because the aircraft will be only a few times.

Transport squadrons become important if there are flyable C-47 in the game. Liaison squadrons are mostly valuable to modders because there are no L-5 or other "grasshopper" aircraft in the game. For now, they could be left out.

Originally Posted by Sita

No signs of belonging to the wing and the more command is not present. In contrast to the USAAF, RAF squadrons, most of the war more than once
transferred from one wing to the other. In this situation, it makes no sense to add more of the same squadron with only a postscript to a different wing.

Good point. I'd only ask that each squadron be labeled with the general type of aircraft they flew, so you don't have to be a military historian in order to put together a plausible RAF, RAAF, or RNZAF order of battle.

Originally Posted by Sita

As far as I know, foreign pilots in the RAF specifically studied English. French or Polish, then again, if I am not mistaken, all It is forbidden to use in radio, not to create chaos in communication with ground controllers.

They studied English, but it is difficult to master a foreign language with just a few months of daily lessons squeezed in between other aspects of operational training.

For intra-squadron communications foreigners in the RAF or RAAF often reverted to their native language. But, they had enough English that they could understand and send messages in English to Ground Control Stations or other units, and make themselves understood in English when needed.

In those cases, realistically, you'd have have "mixed" voice packs - with native language for "individual" or "squadron" commands like "Break Left" or "Anybody help me!" but accented English for commands from a squadron to other units, (like, "Thanks for joining us!"). Ground control commands would be in British-accented English.

There's a great scene in the "Battle of Britain" film, where members of No. 303 (Polish) squadron serving in the RAF deliberately ignore their leader's orders - given in English - and attacks a German plane using Polish to communicate among themselves.

Originally Posted by Sita

you are going to use the fact that the offer to add?
you are going to do the campaign on a high level of detail, and will use all of these connected and rescue squads?

Point taken. I'll work on campaigns, not Orders of Battle.

[dimlee]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

I

There's a great scene in the "Battle of Britain" film, where members of No. 303 (Polish) squadron serving in the RAF deliberately ignore their leader's orders - given in English - and attacks a German plane using Polish to communicate among themselves.

My favourite one.
"Nemtsy, nemtsy !!!" - agitated Polish pilots
"Stop. That. Polish. Chatter. And steer two three zero.." (with stiff upper lip)
"Repeat pliz..."


https://youtu.be/yXf1bhEEXd0

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by dimlee

My favourite one.

Yep. That's the one.

There's a lovely documentary on 303 squadron here:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptijNcDanVw

Over time, the "bloody foreigners" in the RAF learned more English, if only to help them buy beer and meet English women, but I'm sure that the temptation to revert to native language in emergencies must have been huge.

For the RAAF, things might have been a bit different, since some of the RAAF (NEI) squadrons only had Dutch pilots, but Australian gunners and ground crew! I'd think that there's much more incentive to learn the language if you need to make yourself understood to your crew and mechanics. (That, and the Dutch seem to have a genius for learning other people's languages. ).

Getting historical voice packs for the RAF and RAAF foreign squadrons would be a real challenge, and I'm not sure IL2 is up to it.

You'd need to add South African, Canadian, Rhodesian, and even Caribbean-accented English to the existing UK, Australian and New Zealand voice packs to represent all the Commonwealth nations, plus Accented/Bad English packs with American, Czech, Dutch, French, Greek, Irish, Norwegian, and Polish accents to represent foreigners who flew with the RAF!