FWs Durabillity

[Ice_Eagle]

Statics use an entirely different damage model. And to be honest, I'm just happy
that they blowup/burn when strafing an airfield. Its not like your sitting there
in a helicopter continually shooting at a 190's wing.

[RPS69]

Hmmm... try to break it without the mortars. Maybe what is modeled is the mortar explosion there.
You could check it on the ground too, Pursuivant.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by RPS69

Hmmm... try to break it without the mortars. Maybe what is modeled is the mortar explosion there.
You could check it on the ground too, Pursuivant.

Done, using the FW-190A-4 in my test mission environment, although I only made two trials.

In both cases, the Wgr.21 didn't cause wing breakage because the rocket is immune to weapon fire. It has no DM.

That means that my guess in my previous post seems more likely - IL2 actually has some mechanism that allows parts weakened by damage to break under G-stress or high air resistance.

If so, that's really good news. Not only is it realistic, but a very similar effect could be used to simulate progressive damage and weakening of surrounding parts due to fires.

(Currently, it appears that fires either burn forever, burn until the plane's fuel runs out, or burn for some number of seconds until they trigger an explosion, depending on the plane.)

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

(Currently, it appears that fires either burn forever, burn until the plane's fuel runs out, or burn for some number of seconds until they trigger an explosion, depending on the plane.)

I think there are two stages of fire - at least for fuel tanks. One that burns forever, and does not do any damage, and another that eventually will lead to explosion of the tank. And I also think it is now possible that a fire reaches "second stage" on its own. Also it is possible to turn fire stage one into full blown with only a (few) hit(s) of incendiary ammo.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by majorfailure

I think there are two stages of fire - at least for fuel tanks. One that burns forever, and does not do any damage, and another that eventually will lead to explosion of the tank. And I also think it is now possible that a fire reaches "second stage" on its own. Also it is possible to turn fire stage one into full blown with only a (few) hit(s) of incendiary ammo.

My guess is that IL2's damage model includes the option to include special effects which can include explosions. They might be timed ("10 seconds and then explosion"), they might be a random chance over time ("1% chance every second the fire continues), or they might be a cumulative chance over time ("1% chance of explosion +1% every second").

But, since the .sfs and buttons files are some of the most closely held information in the game - even on the modding sites.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Ice_Eagle

Statics use an entirely different damage model.

Sorry that I wasn't clearer. In my test mission I use the flying models. I just have them start on the ground so that I have a very close range, non-moving target so that there can be no mistakes about what part I hit, how often I hit, and whether a particular gun loses effectiveness at range.

I also use Arcade Mode so I can determine exactly where my bullets hit, and what effect my firing has on AI.

Yes, it's a very artificial test environment, but it's taught me a lot about the IL2 damage model and about how the actual planes were built.


So, I repeat: on the ground, against a flyable FW-190, it is impossible to break that aircraft's wing using .50 caliber BMG. I've tested this something like 25 times now and I always get the same result.


Where I'm obviously wrong is that it appears that IL2 actually does have some mechanism where parts weakened by gunfire can break under G-stress or high speeds. That's very good news indeed.

Now if they just extend that same effect to fires rather than having a "plane explodes" effect set to trigger sometime after the plane is set on fire.

[RPS69]

Hey Ice, you sure this was unmodded?

I couldn't repeat your results on more than 100 trials with friendly targets.

[Ice_Eagle]

Originally Posted by RPS69

Hey Ice, you sure this was unmodded?

I couldn't repeat your results on more than 100 trials with friendly targets.

The damage models on the 190's were bone stock. With Wgr.21 attached I can break, or something breaks the wing. Without Wgr.21 attached I cannot break the wing. I killed the pilot, engine, rudder, fin, elevators, ailerons, landing gear, but the wings remained intact. So Pursuivant is on to something here.

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by Ice_Eagle

The damage models on the 190's were bone stock. With Wgr.21 attached I can break, or something breaks the wing. Without Wgr.21 attached I cannot break the wing. I killed the pilot, engine, rudder, fin, elevators, ailerons, landing gear, but the wings remained intact. So Pursuivant is on to something here.

Can you break the wings when there are 50kg bombs attached? Wings on weaker planes are breakable by only the force gravity and mass of attachments generate. Extremely easy to do with Hs129, if done well you can lose both wings simultaneously. So maybe the wings of Fw190 are weakened under fire to a point where they can no longer support the additional load of attachment under the gravitational pull?

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by majorfailure

Can you break the wings when there are 50kg bombs attached? Wings on weaker planes are breakable by only the force gravity and mass of attachments generate.

I don't think that parts can be broken by gravity alone - at least when I'm shooting at static models.

IL2 doesn't model the sort of sagging or bending you'd see if the airframe was failing due to gravity. Instead, broken parts often fly off stationary (flyable) aircraft in extremely unrealistic fashion.

But, the idea that wings might break under the strain of ordinance on their wings might have merit.

On the ground, I've seen no evidence that ordinance mounted on wing hardpoints affects wing breakage. But, what might be going on is that the game models increased wind resistance due to external ordinance and that combines with other damage effects to break wings. Sort of a combination of my guess and your guess.