Been a while....

[Bandit Bill]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

I don't know about that. I bought every add on that came out that had new content. The third party campaign things I could take or leave.. but the new content was a must. I am sure that like many of us who had FB+AEP+PF already buying Pe-2 was a no brainer. I know many folks myself included who would have been willing to pay for every single thing we got in the mods as seprate add ons had they been released by 1C. It was for me. Did the fact that so many people pirated PF & Pe-2 play a factor in 1C deciding that it would not be worth the time and work & expense of developing more add ons with with SoW in the oven?





SoW is hardly vaporware. I wonder if those who maintain this erroneaous line of thought will be man enough to admit they are wrong when the sim is finally released...


That's not why the modders took over at all. If they could have they would have modded this sim earlier. Count on it. This was not something that started after support for FB stopped. This has been going on for years, it just became acessable to a larger group of folks @ 2 years or so ago. When the 4.09 patch came out the sim was modded... so that line iof thought is wrong.

Sorry, but when dates slip by years.. until it appears on store shelves, it's much hallyboo'd vaporware. Nothing more nothing less. If it comes out, great.. i'm not holding my breath though, and i certainly won't be first in line.

If they coulda, they woulda.. yes i know. But, by circumstance and timing, this is essentially where the mods took over where the developers left off.. they did a fine job on what they did do, but the legit mod community came about essentially on the premise that what exists can be improved, and what doesn't, can be made to exist .. in time. Obviously more time and/or resources than 1C:Maddox had..

It's a chicken vs the egg argument.. what cheats/'mods' existed before patch 4.09 came about were not released to the wild.. when patch 4.09 came out, it was fortuitious that the mod community picked up the slack, knowing that no further mods were expected (yeah, we all know about the 4.09 final, whenever THAT may come out..)

It's funny.. people seem to revel in demonizing the 'hack' of IL2.. i am only surprised that it had stayed un-hacked as long as it did - a hack didn't go 'wild' until the commercial viability of IL2 had essentially run it's course - perhaps it even gave the franchise a little extra boost through new people picking up a copy, to play with the mods.

[SaQSoN]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Did the fact that so many people pirated PF & Pe-2 play a factor in 1C deciding that it would not be worth the time and work & expense of developing more add ons with with SoW in the oven?

It's hardly a matter of piracy. I'd say, it's loss of interest in wide public. The sales of anything FB/PF-related were steadily going down after PF, which was the last success of the series, actually. With such dynamics, if there was a next add-on after 46, it wouldn't be able to cover it's dev.costs. Even if each die-hard fan would buy 2 copies of it.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by SaQSoN

It's hardly a matter of piracy. I'd say, it's loss of interest in wide public. The sales of anything FB/PF-related were steadily going down after PF, which was the last success of the series, actually. With such dynamics, if there was a next add-on after 46, it wouldn't be able to cover it's dev.costs. Even if each die-hard fan would buy 2 copies of it.

Wow.. I didn't know that...

I hope that the part of SoW that Oleg will make moddable will never cross over to the core of the sim.. I believe that since he is doing SoW from the ground up he is probably making it so that the FMs are so encrypted that they can never be gotten to.. but iother things like maps etc.. can.. at least I hope that's they way he makes it..

[311thCopperhead]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Wow.. I didn't know that...

I hope that the part of SoW that Oleg will make moddable will never cross over to the core of the sim.. I believe that since he is doing SoW from the ground up he is probably making it so that the FMs are so encrypted that they can never be gotten to.. but iother things like maps etc.. can.. at least I hope that's they way he makes it..

Actually i see Olegs reasoning beihnd it. and i think it's a good thing.
When they anounced there would be limited modding with OM/1C supplied toos...i thought that was a great idea still do. It's ...in a way.....frees oleg up on having staff to work on expanding the sim so much and allows the use of 3rd party moddlers/map makers/ texture artists...to submit they're work and get it included.

but intill then...no mods.

FYI i don't consider Gibbage, or Harti or any of our 3rd partty guys modders. They actually produce quality work that meets OM's strict standerds.

[Wolf_Rider]

Bearcat... you still haven't justified pushing the developer to one side...

It was 2 years ago when I first noticed some planes doing things they should not have been doing

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

Bearcat... you still haven't justified pushing the developer to one side...

It was 2 years ago when I first noticed some planes doing things they should not have been doing

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Man.... hush up... You don't know what you are talking about.

What makes you think that because I use mods I have pushed the developer aside? I bought several copies of 46 in 2008 alone... How many did you buy? Developer support is more than just lip service. If you have given more than that then good on you, but you are in absolutely no position whatsoever to pass judgment on anything I have done in this sim as far as supporting 1C.

You don't know what you are talking about.

I have supported this sim and it's development team from day one and will continue to do so as long as they are putting out products of this quality.

I did as far as I am concerned...

[flyingbullseye]

Originally Posted by SaQSoN

It's hardly a matter of piracy. I'd say, it's loss of interest in wide public. The sales of anything FB/PF-related were steadily going down after PF, which was the last success of the series, actually. With such dynamics, if there was a next add-on after 46, it wouldn't be able to cover it's dev.costs. Even if each die-hard fan would buy 2 copies of it.

That's actually the biggest problem for flight sim devs in general whether its this sim, FS9,X ect. Most games are going the FPS route and generate much more income than flight sims. Its easy to understand considering how easy it is to pick up the skill when playing a FPS (point gun at opponent, push trigger, see enemy die) as opposed to the dynamics of flight and pushing the aircraft to thel limit as well as the tactics, strength and weaknesses for you and your opponents ride. That's what has me concerned about SOW BOB and the length of time in its development. I really hope Oleg and team can finish soon and make enough to continue its development past the Battle of Britian.

Flyingbullseye

[LEXX]

It should not be an problem, but it is sadly.

Look at the success of strategic warfare games, space strategery games, and good ground combat sims that are not "arcade." None of these are FPS shooter games, but intstead they require much thinking and planning --- strategery.

The problem with combat flight sims is lack of immersive air war simulation, although that can also be applied by independent 3rd Party modders like Lowengrin. But even Lowengrin cannot change things like bomber formations limited to 4 aircraft for example.

For some reason, Oleg took a *great* game engine and bottled it up into a canned Online Dogfight fps shooter game which crippled sales in the long run. It took Lowengrin's dynamic campaign engine to save the sim for many Offline players, while the Online War developers had to endure torture to do the same for Online War players.

[LEXX]

Bear::

I hope that the part of SoW that Oleg will make moddable will never cross over to the core of the sim.. I believe that since he is doing SoW from the ground up he is probably making it so that the FMs are so encrypted that they can never be gotten to.. but iother things like maps etc.. can.. at least I hope that's they way he makes it..

Oleg has tentative plans for possible independent 3rd Party aircraft modding for the "open mod" version of BoB And Beyond, but not for the "no mod" version.

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

Originally Posted by SaQSoN

It's hardly a matter of piracy. I'd say, it's loss of interest in wide public. The sales of anything FB/PF-related were steadily going down after PF, which was the last success of the series, actually. With such dynamics, if there was a next add-on after 46, it wouldn't be able to cover it's dev.costs. Even if each die-hard fan would buy 2 copies of it.

I find this hard to believe. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying your lying or that this wasn't true when 46 was released but It seems like it has picked up in the last year or two. I see so many new people coming to this sim and getting 1946. In fact I've seen more new players come to this sim in the last year or so than when 1946 first came out. I wish we had access to the sales figures but it seems like 1946 really only took off in the last 18 months. Almost every day at the Ubi forums we have a new player posting a question.