Mossie speed

[Al Schlageter]

Originally Posted by Bobb4

The kill quoted earlier in this thread is of a mossie out of its element, flying low, someting it was not really meant to do???? I could be wrong on that but I always assumed a mossie was a high altitude fighter/bomber.

Early Mossies used single stage two speed superchargers (Merlin 20 series) which hurt its performance at altitude just like the Allison V-1710 hurt at altitude.

Get hold of the Osprey books on the Mossie.

[*Buzzsaw*]

Salute

As has been mentioned, for some reason Oleg chose to model a 1942 version of the Mosquito FB.

Later versions were much faster.

Below is a link to a test of a 1943 Nightfighter version, equipped with 1943 version Merlin 61 engines, operating at only +15 boost, it has a top speed of 408 mph, quite a bit faster than the game's version.

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...uito/mp469.pdf

Later models which used 150 octane and which had boost raised to +25 had a top speed a little above 426 mph.

The Mosquito outperformed any other twin engined prop driven nightfighter or nightbomber.

[Al Schlageter]

Originally Posted by *Buzzsaw*

Below is a link to a test of a 1943 Nightfighter version, equipped with 1943 version Merlin 61 engines, operating at only +15 boost, it has a top speed of 408 mph, quite a bit faster than the game's version.

NF.XV: A high-altitude night fighter with a pressurized cabin, extended wingtips, two-stage Merlin engines, lightened airframe, and armament consisting of four 7.7 millimeter Browning machine guns in a ventral pack. Only five built, one being a rebuild of an undesignated prototype used to evaluate a pressure cabin, the other four being rebuilds of NF.IIs.

If one wants to read some reports other than biased selective ones:
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o.../mosquito.html

[*Buzzsaw*]

Originally Posted by Al Schlageter

NF.XV: A high-altitude night fighter with a pressurized cabin, extended wingtips, two-stage Merlin engines, lightened airframe, and armament consisting of four 7.7 millimeter Browning machine guns in a ventral pack. Only five built, one being a rebuild of an undesignated prototype used to evaluate a pressure cabin, the other four being rebuilds of NF.IIs.

I see, you want to exclude all rare versions of British aircraft, but its ok to have 109K4 -C3 which only saw service in single Staffel, (approx. 9 aircraft) as experimental aircraft. Or TA-152H, or any number of other German aircraft which are in the game which are very rare or total fantasies. Double standards anyone?

Here's a less rare Mk IX, another 1943 version. Top speed 405 mph.



And the NF Mk 30, equipped with the Merlin 72 at only +18 boost, has a top speed of 397 mph as you can see from table below:



With engines boosted to +21, and 350 + more horsepower, it could achieve 426 mph, as I mentioned above.

Charts showing engine horsepower at +18 and +21:



Either of these aircraft is faster than the version we have in the game.

Amazing how German fanatics insist on one standard for their 'uber' planes, but another for Allied aircraft.

By the way, all these charts ARE from Mike William's WWII Performance. I would suggest anyone who is interested go there:

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o.../mosquito.html

[robtek]

@ buzzsaw

I, for my part find it really amazing how poor your position must seem to you to introduce such polemic sentences in this, until then, fairly objektive thread:

Originally Posted by *Buzzsaw*

.......I see, you want to exclude all rare versions of British aircraft, but its ok to have 109K4 -C3 which only saw service in single Staffel, (approx. 9 aircraft) as experimental aircraft. Or TA-152H, or any number of other German aircraft which are in the game which are very rare or total fantasies. Double standards anyone?.......

.....
Amazing how German fanatics insist on one standard for their 'uber' planes, but another for Allied aircraft.
......

[*Buzzsaw*]

Originally Posted by robtek

@ buzzsaw

I, for my part find it really amazing how poor your position must seem to you to introduce such polemic sentences in this, until then, fairly objektive thread:

So it seems you see no problem in having the latest, best possible models of German aircraft modelled in IL-2, and only the earliest, poorest performing Allied?

If that is the case, then YOUR objectivity is clearly in doubt.

No doubt you'd be full of outrage if IL-2 only had the 1942 FW-190A4, but it seems when it comes to the Mosquito, you're happy with the game only having a 1942 version?

As far as how 'poor' my position is, I would suggest you actually look at the historical documents presented, and compare the figures in those documents to the performance of IL-2 aircraft, and the claims of some of the posters here before you start your accusations.

Then you'd understand that in fact the responses to this thread were far from being objective, in fact there was a lot of false information being purveyed to a fair question about the Mosquito's performance by the thread originator. The suggestion was the Mosquito had no speed advantage, when in fact, it did at a lot of altitudes, especially when facing only prop driven Nightfighter opposition.

[41Sqn_Banks]

The obvious reason why we do not have a NF mark of the Mosquito in the game is that the game doesn't simulate night bomber/fighter operations.

The Mosquito FB VI is of course the right choice for the game as it perfectly fits into the tactical environment it simulates and it was used in large numbers. Crying for any other version - especially a NF - is as stupid as crying for a flyable Lancaster, flyable B-17 or flyable Bf 110 night fighter. Even a flyable Mosquito B IV wouldn't be useful as there is no map for it.

What's left is a possible discussion about the performance of the Mosquito FB VI we have in the game.
IMHO this is a very good report about the relative performance of it: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...I-tactical.pdf
That trials could have been made with the game, couldn't they

The only question is whether our Mosquito has a Merlin 21 or Merlin 23 (which would boost the performance a bit).

[Al Schlageter]

Originally Posted by *Buzzsaw*

I see, you want to exclude all rare versions of British aircraft, but its ok to have 109K4 -C3 which only saw service in single Staffel, (approx. 9 aircraft) as experimental aircraft. Or TA-152H, or any number of other German aircraft which are in the game which are very rare or total fantasies. Double standards anyone?

By the way, all these charts ARE from Mike William's WWII Performance. I would suggest anyone who is interested go there:

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o.../mosquito.html

I already posted that link.

Be sure 5 non operational prototypes are rare.

There was 4 Gruppen with around 167 (iirc) K-4s. The number that had been converted to C3 is questionable but you can be sure a good number had been. At least the Ta152H saw combat which is more than can be said for your selective NF XV.

Stick to data on the Mossie we have in the game. And, before you get your silk knickers into to much of a knot, yes we need a late war Mossie FB.

BRITISH MOSQUITO PRODUCTION:
__________________________________________________ ______________________

new_build conversions
__________________________________________________ ______________________

PR.I 10
PR.IV - 29 conversions from B.IV.
PR.VIII 5
PR.IX 90
PX.XVI 432
PR.32 5 1 prototype conversion from PR.XVI.
PR.34 181
PR.35 - 10 conversions from B.35s.

PR_SUM: 723
__________________________________________________ ______________________

B.IV (I) 10
B.IV (II) 263
B.V 1
B.IX 54
B.XVI 402
B.35 265

B_SUM: 995
__________________________________________________ ______________________

(N)F.II 494
NF.XII - 98 conversions from NF.II.
NF.XIII 260
NF.XV 1 4 conversions of NF.IIs.
NF.XVII - 99 conversions of NF.IIs.
NF.XIX 280
NF.30 526
NF.36 163
NF.38 101 1 prototype conversion from NF.36.

NF_SUM: 1,825
__________________________________________________ ______________________

FB.VI 2,584
FB.VIII - 19 conversions from FB.VIs.
TF/TR.33 50 2 conversions from FB.VIs.
TF.37 14
T.III 352 6 conversions from F.IIs.
TT.35 - 26 conversions from B.35s.
TT/39 - 106 conversions from B.XVIs.

ETC_SUM: 3,000
__________________________________________________ ______________________

subtotal: 6,543
__________________________________________________ ______________________

CANADIAN MOSQUITO PRODUCTION:
__________________________________________________ ______________________

B.VII 25
B.XX 245
B.25 343
FB.21 6
FB.26 337
T.22 6
T.27 43
T.29 37 conversions from FB.26.
__________________________________________________ ______________________

subtotal: 1,005
__________________________________________________ ______________________

AUSTRALIAN MOSQUITO PRODUCTION:
__________________________________________________ ______________________

PR.40: 6
PR.41 - 28 conversions from FB.40s.
FB.40 203
FB.42 - 1 conversions from FB.40.
T.43 - 22 conversions from FB.40s.
__________________________________________________ ______________________

subtotal: 209
__________________________________________________ ______________________

TOTAL: 7,757

http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avmoss3.html

[*Buzzsaw*]

Originally Posted by Al Schlageter

yes we need a late war Mossie FB.

Ahh... Finally he admits there is a lack in the game. Enough said.

[Xiola]

As has already been said, the Mosquito WAS incredibly fast FOR A BOMBER. But there were certainly Luftwaffe fighters which could catch it, especially if they dived from altitude. But you have to remember that most of the Luftwaffe fighters top speed is listed as with boost which they could only use for a short time.


The main reason why it was so hard to shoot down was that by the time it had been spotted, it had usually dropped its load and was racing home at high speed.

The loss rate of Mosquitos was apparantly very very small when compared to other types. Galland states in his book 'The First and the Last', how Goering was so angry at Mosquitos roaming Germany at will, that a dedicated Mosquito killer squadron was set up using 109's with the very latest boost systems in 1944 specially to catch them, however to his knowledge the gruppe never shot down one Mosquito.

It has often been suggested that a huge fleet of Mosquitos would have been a far better proposition than the hundreds of Lancasters bombing every night, but thats another debate.


I dont actually think that Mosquito performance changed that much did it? I thought the top speed always stayed around 404mph and didnt increase that much through the different versions. Possibly the higher boosted Merlins gave better speed below Full throttle height as they did with the Spitfire. But didnt all Mossies have 60 series Merlins?