4.13 development update discussion and feedback

[Pursuivant]

Looking into the whole Hurricane armor plate thing, it appears that at least one Hurricane MkX (Canadian built Mk IIb with U.S.-made Packard Merlin engine) with 12 guns, was supplied to the USSR with armor glass. The mounting is visible here, although the armor glass is missing:

http://www.jneaircraft.com/am274/artifacts/

This particular plane has a fascinating history and models several Hurricane variants not available in IL2.

First, it was a Hurricane MkIIa originally fitted with 12 0.303 caliber guns.

Second, once the Soviets got it, they removed the British guns and replaced them with 2 ShVAK-20 mm cannons and two-UBT-12.7 mm MG in the wings, with ejection ports for the 0.303 guns faired over and new ejection ports and chutes fitted for the new guns.

Further pictures show that it was fitted with Soviet wooden propellor blades.

http://www.jneaircraft.com/am274/history/

As you scroll through this web site, you'll notice several places where bullets punched through armor - one through the rear bulkhead to wound the pilot, another where a bullet missed the pilot and the reserve fuel tank bulkheads and then punched through the firewall (missing the armor plate) to hit the engine.

Since the plane that shot down AM274 was probably a Fw-190A armed with MG 17 (7.62 mm) and 20mm cannons, it's proof that rifle caliber bullets could sometimes punch through armor plate if fired at sufficiently close distance - and if they were AP rounds. So, the armor on the Hurricane series didn't make it invincible, but it helped.

[IceFire]

FYI: Aside from maybe some details ... we have this variant of the Hurricane. It's the Mark II Field Mod. and it has the ShVAK and UBK machine guns in the wings. It's quite potent actually.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by IceFire

FYI: Aside from maybe some details ... we have this variant of the Hurricane. It's the Mark II Field Mod. and it has the ShVAK and UBK machine guns in the wings. It's quite potent actually.

I thought that model also had a Soviet inline engine rather than the RR Merlin, but I could be confusing it with the P-40 field mod.

I was definitely wrong about the MkII with 12 guns not being modeled in the game. It is, although four of the guns are in the outboard wings (where I didn't notice them initially).

For the Hurricane series, the cockpit armor glass appears to be modeled in the cockpit, but not in the external view. I have no idea if it's actually modeled in the DM

I strongly suspect that the armored portions of the fuel tanks and firewall aren't modeled. Either that, or all 7.62 mm bullets fired by German and Japanese bombers are modeled as being AP rather than ball.

As simple error in calculating penetration values by 7.62 mm/0.30/0.303 ball bullets, or the assumption that all bullets of that caliber are AP might go a long way to explaining why bomber gunners are so effective.

[Jami]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Either that, or all 7.62 mm bullets fired by German and Japanese bombers are modeled as being AP rather than ball.
As simple error in calculating penetration values by 7.62 mm/0.30/0.303 ball bullets, or the assumption that all bullets of that caliber are AP might go a long way to explaining why bomber gunners are so effective.

That concerns all Russian bombers and U-2/R-5 as well.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

I thought that model also had a Soviet inline engine rather than the RR Merlin, but I could be confusing it with the P-40 field mod.

Confused with the P-40 Field Mod which uses a Klimov VK-105 off of a Yak or LaGG series. The Hurricane II Field Mod. still features a Merlin engine but with the different armament.