omg the meserchmitch i so easy to shoot with the spit i love it

[CharveL]

Keep on eating those crayons raaaaid you crazy window licker you.

[Pluto]

.... compared to the Hurri and the Spit, the BF109 in CloD turns like a lame duck. In how far that is "realistic" I dont know, bet in reality it turned much better than in the "simulation".

But I found out that they (Spit & Hurri) are not so hard to shoot down, you just have to practice deflection shooting ( I guess that`s what the german "mit Vorhalt schiessen" translates?). Even on the deck above an enemy airbase it is not impossible to shoot them down.

When you are still flying several hundred meters behind the Spit shoot a short burst at it. Doesent need to hit, just makes the pilot aware there is someone behind him. He will automatically like all the reds start turning into your direction. Just check if he starts turning left or right then bring your nose into a position in front of his turning direction and shoot.
The probability to get a serious hit is high. Once he is hit (not killed) it`s over with his superior maneuverability and you get him.

One factor that is also important, "luck" of course.

[raaaid]

the thing is that NOW most people BELIEVE real 109 turned like a duck

history is been revisioned

[Outlaw]

Originally Posted by raaaid

the thing is that NOW most people BELIEVE real 109 turned like a duck

history is been revisioned

You are correct, except for the fact that, compared to a Spitfire or a Hurricane, the 109 DID turn like a duck (especially compared to a Hurricane). So, everything you have said (related to that subject) is totally wrong.

Additionally, as I have said before, there has been no instance EVER, in the history of ALL AIR COMBAT on this planet, where one aircraft out-turned another aircraft. NEVER!!!!

PILOTS have out-turned OTHER PILOTS, but not planes.

The success of the 109s against the British fighters came from the German tactics, not the aircraft. That is why the pilots hated Goering so much when he began requiring them to fly close escort on the bombers. It nullified their advantage against the British aircraft and they suffered the price for it.

--Outlaw.

[raaaid]

marseille could out turn spits

a newbee spit rider will out turn a 109 rider with 15 years experience like me for example in the game

i think turning should be all about who KEEPS THE PLANE CLOSER AT 275 KPH while at full throtle independently of the ride

graphs back up this point

the only real advanatge of the real spit is that under 270 in horizontal turning it stalls while the 109 you can undesterr

[Outlaw]

Originally Posted by raaaid

marseille could out turn spits

a newbee spit rider will out turn a 109 rider with 15 years experience like me for example in the game

i think turning should be all about who KEEPS THE PLANE CLOSER AT 275 KPH while at full throtle independently of the ride

graphs back up this point

the only real advanatge of the real spit is that under 270 in horizontal turning it stalls while the 109 you can undesterr

As usual the entire post above is either completely wrong or irrelevant.

Of course Marseille could out-turn a Spitfire. A fully loaded piloted B-17 could out-turn a Spitfire. Of course that's irrelevant b/c a Spitfire sitting on the ground (or airborne but unpiloted) is ineffective as a combat asset. What Marseille NEVER did was out-turn an airborne piloted Spitfire. What he DID do was out-turn some PILOTs of Spitfires.

Any mention of the game in response to my post is irrelevant since I SPECIFICALLY quoted your post about the, "real" 109.

--Outlaw.

[raaaid]

the thing is that there was some patch which got it right:

the key for a sustained turn duel is not the ride itself but keeping closer to the ideal sustained turning rate speed for that ride

for what i know the only advanatge of the spit concerning turning rate and which the game reflected at certain gone point is that under this speed it stalls warns so the pilot naturally keep ideal sustained turning speed

on the other hand the 109 can fly much slower which is an advantage in scissor fight and the disadvanatge, if you get nervous you can easily go under ideal turning speed

what the game reflects is history rewritten by the louder luftwhiner and spitwon the war whinners

[*Buzzsaw*]

Originally Posted by raaaid

marseille could out turn spits

a newbee spit rider will out turn a 109 rider with 15 years experience like me for example in the game

i think turning should be all about who KEEPS THE PLANE CLOSER AT 275 KPH while at full throtle independently of the ride

graphs back up this point

the only real advanatge of the real spit is that under 270 in horizontal turning it stalls while the 109 you can undesterr

Werner Molders was the leading German pilot of the Battle of Britain era, as well as being the originator of the German tactical doctrine of "Rotte and Schwarm". In August of 1940 he was asked to be a part of an evaluation panel which examined a captured Spitfire, Hurricane and Curtis H-75 and flew them in comparison to 109E's. The report was definitive and clear.

"Before turning fights with the Bf 109 E type, it must be noted in every case, that all three foreign planes have significantly smaller turning circles and turning times.
An attack on the opponent as well as disengagement can only be accomplished on the basis of existing superiority in performance."

Now who are we supposed to believe, raaaid or someone who actually flew the planes and knows what he is talking about?

I leave it up to common sense....

[raaaid]

well thats a common mistake

actually more is less, the most common mistake turning a plane(il246 109 specially) its take to the stall limit

109 turning duels winner is 99% of time the one who pull less the stick

obviously this real life pilot fell at this and notice the obvious advanatge of the spit that is:

stall speed and ideal sustained turning speed are very close

how many people in the game know that the winner of a 109 sustained turn duel the winner is who keeps closer to ideal turning speed not who flies closer to the limit 90% of pilots will turn to the stall limit

very few people i bet this pilot fell for it as well

[badatflyski]

Originally Posted by *Buzzsaw*

"Before turning fights with the Bf 109 E type, it must be noted in every case, that all three foreign planes have significantly smaller turning circles and turning times.
An attack on the opponent as well as disengagement can only be accomplished on the basis of existing superiority in performance."

Now who are we supposed to believe, raaaid or someone who actually flew the planes and knows what he is talking about?

I leave it up to common sense....

YOp, indeed, and now if someone told you than a 109 could turn tighter than a spit, you'll ask for manufacter charts, RLM evaluation data, rechecked by other documents from an earlier or later period and verified by NACA and ADFS with some nose-boogey of Churchil on it, otherwise it's worth s**t

The point is: what altitude, what turn start speed, induced,half or full turn, what angle, etc,etc.

but noooo, that would be too much work to find out

PS Raaid: glad to read you again