Spider no loss without Magic Spring ?

[Xev]

Originally Posted by Youpiya

Hello,

I made exactly 150 no loss battles and there are no more battles I can do before the spider.
I play as a Soothsayer, I tried 1/1/1 trolls, 3 trolls, 3 trolls + 3 Giants + 3 Jotuns, nothing works, I fail when the spider is 12000/36000HP.
I have 82 mana, I was stupid enough to activate the Hilda power 3 or 4 battles ago so that speed and initiative up is not usable...
I have a +10DEF scroll I used, nothing more...
Stone skin costs 3 or 5 MP so that it is expensive at the end, i have no spell that deals damage, just 320HP with the magic missile... and most of all, no magic spring ((( otherwise it would be doable !

Did I forget anything useful ? Any idea ?

Same here. I'm a soothsayer now at level 20 with 7092 leadership (impossible/no loss)
My luck was to get ancient knowledge and flaming eye. But i didn't get mana spring and teleport.
I tried the spider boss with 1/1/1, 3. First loss at 12k hp.
Then i used all runes to get sacrifice lvl2 int23 to produce trolls (resurrected with maidens).
Now next try with 2/2/2, 3/3, 6, 6+full crew. All failed at 8k hp.
With one 6 troll unit the spider boss throws endless webs - 5 turns webs, 1 turn 3 new spider stacks 300+.
It's very hard to move the trolls to the new location when the spider boss moves.

So, this 'it's all so easy' is at least only 'had luck to get mana spring'. Nothing more.
I wish to see the full combat video to believe that this is possible without loss and without any modifying kfs/lua.

[Youpiya]

Tx for answering me as you seem to be the only one in this topic who really tried. For me it is not doable without magic spring. May be it is, but I need more that "it is easy" or "use stone skin", I spent about 500 hours in KBtL, 1500 hours in KBAP, I am at about 100 hours i WotN, and 10 of these 100 hours were spent on this spider combat... I'm no noob.

The thing is, my trolls, with 40 or 180ATT (after frenzy and death of other spiders) do the same damage to the big spider (162 to 216 only, never more). The small spiders it is logical, because they have a DEF which is less than 3 times trolls ATT. The big spider seems to have a small DEF either.
Average damage = 189. 34000/189 = 180 rounds if it is only 1 troll hitting the spider. At 100 rounds, packs of spider are of 300 to 400 and 2 of them kill one troll... So I need to have at least 2 or 3 trolls on the spider...

I have a +20% leadership, a call colossus (best is 3 Giants) and a +10DEF.
I do not have mana regenerator as it is not usefull after the 20th round. Is it ? Did the rule change since AP and +2/4/8 mana are till the end of the combat ???
I need a lead, I want this fight to be a no loss !!!!

[Youpiya]

I may have a solution with 3 trolls + 3 jotuns + 3 giants.
I need to have a 30 round max victory to succeed. Regards to the damages done by 2 or 3 hitting the spider, it is doable, because I have higher magic level3 + Healing lvl3. But for this, I need to find the perfect combat with only 1 move of the spider. I'll try when my daughter is asleep !!

[Xev]

Originally Posted by Youpiya

I may have a solution with 3 trolls + 3 jotuns + 3 giants.
I need to have a 30 round max victory to succeed. Regards to the damages done by 2 or 3 hitting the spider, it is doable, because I have higher magic level3 + Healing lvl3. But for this, I need to find the perfect combat with only 1 move of the spider. I'll try when my daughter is asleep !!

Please tell us when you succeed with this combination. It's great to see another guy who will not give up.
BTW. You got giants? At one of jotun houses?

[ckdamascus]

Yes, the correct combination is the 3 locations, but, what do you do when the spider moves? Your trolls are stuck... how do they get from one side to the other? It turns into a web fest too.

I used to split up the 3 trolls so no matter where the spider is, at least one troll can hit them, but that takes a while.

Maybe I didn't try hard enough but I just didn't feel the 100+ rounds of combat was worth it for me. (well that was with the Viking/Warrior).

With my Soothsayer, I just figured it wasn't worth it. Took me 24 rounds with losses and that was while using a lot of bears for heavy offense.

Yeah, only way to do it with 3 giants would be if you get lucky with a Call Colossus (which I incidentally did have). Although I wonder if they are really the best choice?

It might be doable if the current game wasn't BROKEN with regards to archdemons NOT getting rage balls even if they score a kill.

Anyway, you'll see what i mean by no loss is not worth it if you try to beat the game.

[CharmedonWB]

Originally Posted by Xev

I wish to see the full combat video to believe that this is possible without loss and without any modifying kfs/lua.

Ask and you shall receive. Troll battle 1/1/1 using only stone skin and no mods on Impossible. It is not the full battle because it takes too long but it is enough for you to get the point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efUhN_snMLY

[Youpiya]

Originally Posted by CharmedonWB

Ask and you shall receive. Troll battle 1/1/1 using only stone skin and no mods on Impossible. It is not the full battle because it takes too long but it is enough for you to get the point.

Tx for the video... But, please, just read the title of my topic.
without Magic Spring.
Can you tell me how a warrior, so who has not got as mana as me Soothsayer, spend 650 MANAS (see image on 1:36, 650 mana spent hahaha).
650 manas gained through MAGIC SPRING. DEF+5 MANA+5 when hit. With this spell, I can assure you, I would not have created a topic here...

Now, my daughter is asleep, spider, it is you and me now !!!

Xev, I had 3 Giants through "Call Colossus" spell I had succeeding in the quest for the zombie woman. But the thing is, I think I'll restart from 17 fights before, and try regularly this spell, and try to have better level 5 unit...
What level 5 unit would be perfect for this fight ? Giant is too slow ! And killing spiders with his jump is stupid because the big spider calls news spiders faster so that the packs are bigger and bigger... faster !

[ckdamascus]

In impossible mode? Not sure how it is possible without magic spring. I think the real question is, why do you care to no loss this part? I assure you, later on it will be MUCH harder to no loss some battles.

Even if you do it with 'loss' you might find it isn't THAT easy either? (with soothsayer) <shrugs>, but at least you won't spend a lot of time waiting for web to expire and hope he doesn't chain web you.

I know that probably isn't the answer you want to hear. And I have done no loss in Armored Princess (killed Ktahu Impossible in 6 rounds no loss ), but honestly, I had a lot more fun once I got over the fact that I didn't have magic spring either as soothsayer and my build wasn't ideal for no lossing the spider.

If you insist, the problem is there is almost NO unit that can hit him without getting retaliated on and dying without sustained stoneskin.

One unit that CAN hit him is Jarl's Sweep attack IF you get a spider adjacent to the spider boss. But the gift spell might be expensive (never used it) and you don't have unlimited runes...

You can also try relying on transmute, but delaying in killing the spider minions is generally better unless you are doing a full blitz army for the reasons you said.

[Razorflame]

well since your a mage don't you have transmute?

That gives u +2 mana for every kill u make IIRC

so you don't need a magic spring

as supporting unit I would go for a cyclop if you get it from the scroll

giant is bad slow speed and ini
dragons are also no use since u need to heal them and stuff
archdemon would be ok if it would spawn rage balls(dunno if this is already fixed in a patch)
Ents are not a very good choice either(see giant)
ogre also not very good

cyclops already got high res and can do ranged attack if needed

[Razorflame]

oh and there was another guy(forgot his name)

that used to fill the battle field with ice crystals
( so no spider were spawning anymore and then u can freely kill the boss with ranged or w/e