BOSS VS enemy hero

[Fatt_Shade]

@skycrow

Lead huge troops beyond recent leadership into boss level , and then they can
still defeat bosses easily but in out of control condition.

Not possible , because as soon as you start fight with ONLY units above your lds you lose (expl - you have 10K lds and lead 5 stacks of 11K lds = lose).
But is doable with interesting tactic : take some high initiative unit and in first turn invisibility on it, other stack you lead could be ghost/cursed ghost above your leadership. So as you make your first unit invisible, ghosts will only attack enemy troops betting bigger and bigger with each attack. After enemy army is gone, keep your primary unit invisible (maybe cast chargers spell to get rage/mana because i dont know how rage gain works on units out of control) and cast heal on ghosts to get them under control again. Result you won battle, with no loss = profit

@tiberiu

If you don't have anything interesting to say you know that you can just not write anything, do you?

And here you are doing same thing, you razor doing. Just proving what troll you really are.

OK on topic : I advertised this mode many ties, but I`ll said some things about it that apply here. KB-The Legend/HoMM3 babies mod from MattC. There he changed mechanics for enemy heroes, so that they have similar skills like player. Expl - if main stats is attack then that enemy hero will lower your army initiative for -1 in first turn, or have +1 speed for his units (something like tactics skill). If main stats is intellect enemy will have higher magic skill, allowing for double spell/turn or lowering your army resistances to take more dmg from spells. For main defense enemy army will have higher resistances, or bonus hp . . .
Also all enemy heroes have 10% mana regen/turn, so for late game heroes like elf/demon/undead heroes with 300 mana it means 30 mana/turn regen, it`s like he/she have concentration/transmutate skills. Expl - Xeona fight, she have double spell casting fire rain/fireball AND lowers your enemy fire resistance AND bonus physical resistance for her units. That is interesting fight, to survive.
Also there are some changes in intellect bonus in this mod, like for high enough int for mass weakness spell you do dmg below minimal (mass weakness spell make all units do minimial dmg, but here it goes even below that) , or bonus turns for blind/sheep/doom spells (like they did to creator skill here).
So it`s doable to make enemy heroes fights more challenging and very easy since only 1 man did it in this mod, so professional programing studio should have no prob at all.

About boss fights, top of my head idea would be to lower some of your stats(you`re in terror of such huge creature and lose some mana and/or primary attribute for that fight (20 - 30% maybe)

[ckdamascus]

I think it depends. It can be problematic if you are playing in Impossible and you haven't pre-planned a build to beat a boss and relied heavily on Rage Centric strategies as a Viking/Warrior.

A Soothsayer/Mage can also have similar problems if he relies on winning early on without any method of mana regeneration mid battle. Oops.

I had to take fairly severe losses as a mage against the spider boss, even with the 'trolls'. Heck, I almost simply didn't win the battle because I don't do enough damage with units or with spells. (this was a huge concern of mine in Armored Princess that a Mage could never spell nuke a boss effectively as a Warrior using sheer leadership/damage to wipe out a boss in a fraction of the time).

Incidentally, I won by using Polar Bears and Ancient Bears, using the jacket that gave me -15% leadership for bears. Trolls for consistent damage (and ultimately one of the last survivors) Jarls/Maidens for some damage control.

But then again, this only seems to be a 'problem' in Impossible mode so significant pre-planning and game experience is expected.

[Razorflame]

Originally Posted by ckdamascus

I think it depends. It can be problematic if you are playing in Impossible and you haven't pre-planned a build to beat a boss and relied heavily on Rage Centric strategies as a Viking/Warrior.

A Soothsayer/Mage can also have similar problems if he relies on winning early on without any method of mana regeneration mid battle. Oops.

I had to take fairly severe losses as a mage against the spider boss, even with the 'trolls'. Heck, I almost simply didn't win the battle because I don't do enough damage with units or with spells. (this was a huge concern of mine in Armored Princess that a Mage could never spell nuke a boss effectively as a Warrior using sheer leadership/damage to wipe out a boss in a fraction of the time).

Incidentally, I won by using Polar Bears and Ancient Bears, using the jacket that gave me -15% leadership for bears. Trolls for consistent damage (and ultimately one of the last survivors) Jarls/Maidens for some damage control.

But then again, this only seems to be a 'problem' in Impossible mode so significant pre-planning and game experience is expected.

yes that is also another problem with boss fights that it takes very long to take like 30k HP down. IN ap the bosses came a bit later so u could plan them a bit more carefully. But in WOTN u can't and are forced to use less good units. Which will take quite some time to get him down. The longer a round takes the less chance u have of winning vs a boss

Since u cannot use rage and your mana will deplete eventually unless u have some kind of mana regen. Which isn't always there.

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by Razorflame

yes that is also another problem with boss fights that it takes very long to take like 30k HP down. IN ap the bosses came a bit later so u could plan them a bit more carefully. But in WOTN u can't and are forced to use less good units. Which will take quite some time to get him down. The longer a round takes the less chance u have of winning vs a boss

Since u cannot use rage and your mana will deplete eventually unless u have some kind of mana regen. Which isn't always there.

Well, not just later, but you could skip them.

In Armored Princess, I was able to skip Driller until I had a better setup to no-loss him really fast rather than no-lossing him after taking a LONG time.

I think if people accept losses, it doesn't seem so bad.

You are completely right on the general strategy to beat bosses (hitter who can resist retaliation). It is hard to make a challenging single player game that doesn't feel like "bullcrap".

[Razorflame]

I know but that's why I said that by giving heroes some abilities of your own it could be way more interesting than just plain boss fights

[Nirual]

I've never been much of a fan of boss fights for exactly that reason.

On the upside, they provide an unique type of battle which can be interesting, at least the first time. But I've seen enough of that damn spider they keep reusing. At least in AP it was optional (and replenishing your troops afterwards not as painful).
But the rage restriction just feels really arbitrary and doesn't really make the fight more interesting.

WotN excuses not being able to use rage to "make it fairer for the boss" but considering rage abilities are usually better against groups rather than one guy, I really doubt that's actually the problem. Its probably more that the rage abilities just aren't coded to work properly against a boss.
If that is the case, they should've just made the boss immune to rage abilities and allowed the use to thin out the summons, which most bosses have plenty of anyway.

[dainbramage]

In WotN it feels like warriors get kinda shafted against bosses. Not using rage skills I expected having played the prequels, but at least in those warriors had the highest leadership. It really makes focusing on rage skills a bad idea in the first 4 islands because the spider then becomes quite a wall if you don't have frenzy or the +50% crit dam.

EDIT: I do like the wider range of abilities that enemy heroes have in WotN though. Like Guilford having higher magic.

[Razorflame]

I edited my main post so now it's better to read

@ fatt_shade

I am personally not very fond of boss fights Since it just leaves alot of strat out. If i compare this to AP you needed some items to get a high phys res and/or magic resistance. So your unit adjacent to the boss would survive the damage he would get. While the rest of your army is killing spawns and/or support the unit adjacent to the boss.