ATAG Dedicated Server is up!

[klem]

Ref the new "They have landed" map, did I miss something? Are there objectives that would "hurl them back into the sea"? Like destroying beachhead facilities etc? If not, could we have something to do please as we flew two long sorties on Sunday with no real objective. Unless I did miss something.

Thanks.

Oh, and on the usual maps is there any way to encourage the Blues to escort their bombing raids more so that we have a more 'Battle of Britain' feel to it. We seem to have either attacking unescorted bombers or 109s vulching and just plain old dogfights.

[ATAG_Colander]

Originally Posted by klem

Ref the new "They have landed" map, did I miss something? Are there objectives that would "hurl them back into the sea"? Like destroying beachhead facilities etc? If not, could we have something to do please as we flew two long sorties on Sunday with no real objective. Unless I did miss something.

Thanks.

Oh, and on the usual maps is there any way to encourage the Blues to escort their bombing raids more so that we have a more 'Battle of Britain' feel to it. We seem to have either attacking unescorted bombers or 109s vulching and just plain old dogfights.

Operation Daisy (the new map) was designed to have a change of scenery and with the "Italian Job" event in mind. Red objectives are to stop the bomber raids over london.

As for encouraging the Blues to escort, it happens, just not every pilot does it.
I can guarantee that the more reds are attacking the bombers, the more blues will be escorting them. The reason is simple, if the reds are up there and not on the deck, all the action will be up with the bombers.

We all have preferences of how the game should be played, but each person has a different one.
We are not going to force anyone's idea of how it should be played onto others. At the end, It's up to each person to play the way they prefer.

[klem]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Colander

Operation Daisy (the new map) was designed to have a change of scenery and with the "Italian Job" event in mind. Red objectives are to stop the bomber raids over london.
As for encouraging the Blues to escort, it happens, just not every pilot does it.
I can guarantee that the more reds are attacking the bombers, the more blues will be escorting them. The reason is simple, if the reds are up there and not on the deck, all the action will be up with the bombers.

We all have preferences of how the game should be played, but each person has a different one.
We are not going to force anyone's idea of how it should be played onto others. At the end, It's up to each person to play the way they prefer.

OK, we assumed it had moved on from the Blitz raids and that the idea was to beat back the invasion forces.

On the other maps I don't think more than one or two Blues are interested in protecting their bombers but they do at least try some 110/109 jabo ground attacks. Its a shame they don't get on TS and organise some escorts but there ya go.

[ATAG_Colander]

That's what I'm saying. Players need to organize.
More than once I've been escorting bombers with a few other 109s just to go all the way to England and back without any contact.
In many other occasions we find a single spit (against 2 or more 109s) trying to intercept. Needless to say that the attempt does not last long

[ATAG_Snapper]

Unfortunately, the RAF DM's above 10K are no match for the 109's they encounter with the bomber formations. The 109's ROC is several magnitudes greater even at a co-alt, co-e situation. Further, the 100 octane Spitfires will quickly burn out their engines if they try to match, must less overtake, a 109's climb above 10K. The Hurricane's Merlins have been modelled to be much less prone to overheating, their ROC above 10K is reportedly superior to the Spitfires, but they lack the raw speed of their 109 opponents.

Flying any of the RAF fighters against 109's above 10K is a sucker's game.

Below 10K the RAF fighters, as currently modelled, come into their own. The Spitfires still don't have the sustained ROC that 109's have, but they are well-matched in level speed with their 109 opponents. Their Hurricane counterparts are slightly slower at level speed, but their sustained ROC is better and below 10K can also give good account against co-alt, co-e 109 opponents in the right circumstances.

This is a huge factor why the RAF fighters in this sim stay low -- the Reds prefer to fight on equal terms.

[Kwiatek]

109 is joy to fly even with lower service celling expecially E-4 with auto prop. Spitfires still have engine bugs - e.x. Spitfire MK II doesnt match his RL engine power settings - i got a frequently engine blow using only 2800 RPMs ( RL climb power settings was 2850 RPMs at +9lbs for 1/2 hour).

[5./JG27.Farber]

Originally Posted by Kwiatek

109 is joy to fly even with lower service celling expecially E-4 with auto prop. Spitfires still have engine bugs - e.x. Spitfire MK II doesnt match his RL engine power settings - i got a frequently engine blow using only 2800 RPMs ( RL climb power settings was 2850 RPMs at +9lbs for 1/2 hour).

No its not. You now have more control with manual pitch in 109's... Also if you use wep with auto pitch it will accerelerate to a certain point but to go faster you have to reduce the throttle... I can't replicate this problem yet but its happened to me several times in combat. Plus is the auto pitch bug fixed yet?

[klem]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper

Unfortunately, the RAF DM's above 10K are no match for the 109's they encounter with the bomber formations. The 109's ROC is several magnitudes greater even at a co-alt, co-e situation. Further, the 100 octane Spitfires will quickly burn out their engines if they try to match, must less overtake, a 109's climb above 10K. The Hurricane's Merlins have been modelled to be much less prone to overheating, their ROC above 10K is reportedly superior to the Spitfires, but they lack the raw speed of their 109 opponents.

Flying any of the RAF fighters against 109's above 10K is a sucker's game.

Below 10K the RAF fighters, as currently modelled, come into their own. The Spitfires still don't have the sustained ROC that 109's have, but they are well-matched in level speed with their 109 opponents. Their Hurricane counterparts are slightly slower at level speed, but their sustained ROC is better and below 10K can also give good account against co-alt, co-e 109 opponents in the right circumstances.

This is a huge factor why the RAF fighters in this sim stay low -- the Reds prefer to fight on equal terms.

This is one of our main problems and many of the bombing raids seem to be higher now, at least in some maps. They used to be typically 13000 feet but some are now 15000. One of our squadmates who stayed away until this official patch came out was steaming about it and he has a point. There's no point in trying to be 'historical' if we don't have historical a/c performance. Its a great way to finally send the undecided players away from CoD
and he may become one of them.

Poor a/c performance is not ATAG's fault but perhaps you could give some consideration to more performance 'balance'. It's a frustrating struggle climbing up to 15000 feet, juggling with reduced rpm and boost, in an aircraft that is supposed to make twice that height.

[ATAG_Snapper]

TBH Klem, I feel much worse for those of us who chose NOT to stay away but refused to give up and persevered, only to be badly disappointed with the final FM outcome.

One of our new forum members is in the process of developing data sheets for each of the C0D aircraft. He's been plugging in the aircraft specs, then getting our input to modify them to CoD-specific. He has the Spitfire 2a listed at 450 mph IAS max speed per spec. To me, this seemed a little high based on my own experience flying the virtual 2a in CoD. Earlier today I took a CoD Spitfire 2a on our ATAG server to 20 angels, levelled out, coarsened prop pitch to bring rpms down to 2200, then gently bunted over into a 45 degree dive. Sure enough, at 430 IAS (captured on FRAPS), the wings flew off at 430 IAS (= 672 kmh IAS). Oops. Compare that to the CoD 109's Vmax of 750 kmh IAS and it's easy to see why a Spit pilot in CoD would be foolish to follow a 109 in a dive. Not historic, but that's Cliffs of Dover.

https://vimeo.com/52493047

Changes in mission design are ongoing, with certain adjustments made to effect better gameplay. I can't personally say if bomber formations will be dropped down to 5 angels to effect fairer gameplay above, co-alt, and below for both side's fighters, nor am I sure that I'd want to see the elimination of high formations. But we've had low AI formations already on ATAG, to mixed reviews from Blue and Red pilots.

There's no pleasing everyone....be sure. The best thing is to mix it up a bit so there's something for everyone at some point.