The Sultan's Alchemist quest....erm, what?

[Zechnophobe]

As far as I can tell, you are just a really intolerant person if you think references to any specific religion, especially the fairly historical benign parts, are somehow 'not okay' to have in a game.

The vikings are noticeably Norse. This guy? He's got obvious middle eastern background. What's the big deal?

[KaryAnn]

Originally Posted by Zechnophobe

As far as I can tell, you are just a really intolerant person if you think references to any specific religion, especially the fairly historical benign parts, are somehow 'not okay' to have in a game.

The vikings are noticeably Norse. This guy? He's got obvious middle eastern background. What's the big deal?

Fairly historical benign? I don't even...

If a fantasy game with flying horses and giant man eating plants referenced the second coming of Jesus and quoted Aristotle, you better believe it sticks out like a sore thumb.

This guy isn't referenced as someone who is 'obviously middle eastern' but someone who is and was around where Islam was practiced. Which puts Islam in your whole game setting. Which puts kind of everything else in the whole picture too. It's not unique anymore.

The world is supposed to be unique, isn't it? Which means that you cannot use historical connotations, only general ones. You can use middle eastern but you can't use Ottoman anything because that has a connotation you cannot generalize. Which means you cannot use Sultan anything.

English literature is very strict on this kind of thing. You know, time periods, anachronisms, pretty sure there is a definition for this sort of example as a no-no.

As a literary framework, it is not done. And every serious author knows this.

It's not the same thing as basing your story around the Norse gods. Not even remotely close.

[axxis34]

Originally Posted by KaryAnn

Fairly historical benign? I don't even...

If a fantasy game with flying horses and giant man eating plants referenced the second coming of Jesus and quoted Aristotle, you better believe it sticks out like a sore thumb.

This guy isn't referenced as someone who is 'obviously middle eastern' but someone who is and was around where Islam was practiced. Which puts Islam in your whole game setting. Which puts kind of everything else in the whole picture too. It's not unique anymore.

The world is supposed to be unique, isn't it? Which means that you cannot use historical connotations, only general ones. You can use middle eastern but you can't use Ottoman anything because that has a connotation you cannot generalize. Which means you cannot use Sultan anything.

English literature is very strict on this kind of thing. You know, time periods, anachronisms, pretty sure there is a definition for this sort of example as a no-no.

As a literary framework, it is not done. And every serious author knows this.

It's not the same thing as basing your story around the Norse gods. Not even remotely close.

Ofcourse you can use anything from the middle-east. Did you not read my reply? The vikings were all over the known (and much of the unknown) world at that time! They knew about islam, they knew about christianity, they knew about jews et al. Did they care? Not much. They were happy with their own gods, yet ... they were eventually converted to christianity, by force.

Maybe you should try to wikipedia vikings and see what they really did.

You dont see me bashing christianty right? Even though I would be entitled too, since my ancestors were vikings and were converted to a religion they really didnt want. Hell, Sweden wasnt fully converted until around 1600 or so. Even to this day you have priests of the old norse gods doing their thing.

[KaryAnn]

Originally Posted by axxis34

Ofcourse you can use anything from the middle-east. Did you not read my reply? The vikings were all over the known (and much of the unknown) world at that time! They knew about islam, they knew about christianity, they knew about jews et al. Did they care? Not much. They were happy with their own gods, yet ... they were eventually converted to christianity, by force.

Maybe you should try to wikipedia vikings and see what they really did.

You dont see me bashing christianty right? Even though I would be entitled too, since my ancestors were vikings and were converted to a religion they really didnt want. Hell, Sweden wasnt fully converted until around 1600 or so. Even to this day you have priests of the old norse gods doing their thing.

Of course I read everything you said, the problem you have is that the vikings did all this at different times. They didn't serve as bodyguards for the Sultans as you say while they worshipped Odin. It's a historical anachronism.

You can't just pool such a long history of a people into one segment.

[axxis34]

Originally Posted by KaryAnn

Of course I read everything you said, the problem you have is that the vikings did all this at different times. They didn't serve as bodyguards for the Sultans as you say while they worshipped Odin. It's a historical anachronism.

You can't just pool such a long history of a people into one segment.

Well, since the viking age only lasted from 793 (plundering of the abbey on Lindisfarne) to 1066 (battle of stamford bridge) they sure did serve as bodyguards while still worshipping the norse gods. There are historical evidence of this, but you can ofcourse choose to ignore it.
I really dont get what you mean by different times? Bear in mind that it wasnt until the 11th century that the "vikings" were considered to be converted to the "new religion" (ie at the end of the viking age)

[Chro]

I really, really hope you're joking. If you're this intolerant of anything that references middle eastern culture, then you are sad, sad person.

Heaven forbid you watch something as horrifying as disney's Aladdin.

By the way, here's something that will blow your mind: among thousands of other inventions, COFFEE was invented in the middle east.

Think about that next time you enjoy your Starbucks.

[DGDobrev]

Whoa, some thread...

Woe to KB, for making such relations... And in only 3 words... How about we discuss the civilization series, where you choose such civics/policies, you can play with islamic leaders, you can do anything they did. Does that make you a terrorist? No.

On the other hand, KB with its 3 words based on oriental beliefs makes it a terrorist supporting game. Great logic.

In the end, to each his own. I hadn't had the chance to play much, but I really like what I'm seeing so far. Best of the series all in one package. Me likey!!!

[Bhruic]

Originally Posted by KaryAnn

This guy isn't referenced as someone who is 'obviously middle eastern' but someone who is and was around where Islam was practiced. Which puts Islam in your whole game setting. Which puts kind of everything else in the whole picture too. It's not unique anymore.

This is, I'm afraid, an incredibly silly statement. You're confusing culture with religion. There is no mention of Islam, or anything relating to it. There are references to historical Arabic culture. Which is no different than the references in the game to historical Viking culture. You have to be trying awfully hard to get offended by this, as no rational thinker is going to make the leap between "harems" or "Sultans" and Islam.

Heck, if one were to make such a leap, you'd have to assume the game was putting Christianity into the game too by referencing "Kings" and "knights".

[Zechnophobe]

Originally Posted by KaryAnn

Fairly historical benign? I don't even...

If a fantasy game with flying horses and giant man eating plants referenced the second coming of Jesus and quoted Aristotle, you better believe it sticks out like a sore thumb.

This guy isn't referenced as someone who is 'obviously middle eastern' but someone who is and was around where Islam was practiced. Which puts Islam in your whole game setting. Which puts kind of everything else in the whole picture too. It's not unique anymore.

The world is supposed to be unique, isn't it? Which means that you cannot use historical connotations, only general ones. You can use middle eastern but you can't use Ottoman anything because that has a connotation you cannot generalize. Which means you cannot use Sultan anything.

English literature is very strict on this kind of thing. You know, time periods, anachronisms, pretty sure there is a definition for this sort of example as a no-no.

As a literary framework, it is not done. And every serious author knows this.

It's not the same thing as basing your story around the Norse gods. Not even remotely close.

Just two different mythologies, with some overlap. If they had Christian Mythology mixed in (and they do, to a small extend, with priests and inquisitor units), it would not change anything.