King’s Bounty: Warriors of the North Release Date Announced / Pre-Order Available

[Mygaffer]

Originally Posted by Sneaksie

There will be retail versions of course, but the will use Steamworks as well.

While I love Steam and have over 300 games in my Steam account I think people resent having their only option to play the game be tied to a Steam account.

I know it is a relatively painless process but some people do not want to use that service.

while I own The Legend and Crossworlds on Steam I also bought a second copy on GOG.com of The Legend because it was a DRM-free installer. That is something us PAYING customers value, pirates don't care what DRM you use.

So not only have I bought a second copy from GOG.com but if you would also release Crossworlds on GOG.com I would buy it in a second. Literally, I will spend the money all over again to have the game DRM free even though I use and enjoy Steam.

Your customers, the guys really into strategy games, are mostly the people who will buy your games. The people who will pirate this game are not the people who are going to be spending $30 on it, trust me.

The funny thing is that by offering a more convenient service you actually increase the value of your product. You already see I am willing to buy a game over again just for that feature of convience, I can install it on my work computer, any computer, I don't require an internet connection or an activation, there are times that comes in handy. I am not giving this game to people and if someone is interested I can let them play it and you may convert another player into a fan who will want to buy your other games. So you think you are protecting yourself by using DRM, even very good DRM like Steamworks, but really you are lowering the value of your product. There is some more complexity behind this I know but you should try and see what people actually value in your games, what they are willing to spend money on.

I've already pre-ordered Warriors of the North the moment I woke up groggily this morning and bleary eyed saw that it was availble for pre-order, I knew it was a day-1 preorder for me. I am looking forward to playing this game so much, I am now running through The Legend again as a run up to Warriors of the North. I am so excited.

[Sir Whiskers]

Originally Posted by Mygaffer

While I love Steam and have over 300 games in my Steam account I think people resent having their only option to play the game be tied to a Steam account.

MG, thanks for your thoughtful post. I am one of the folks you refer to. I have never purchased (leased?) a title from Steam and doubt I ever will, for various reasons. I certainly understand that many customers have had a good experience with them, but I'm not willing to purchase from them, given their current business model.

Originally Posted by Mygaffer

while I own The Legend and Crossworlds on Steam I also bought a second copy on GOG.com of The Legend because it was a DRM-free installer. That is something us PAYING customers value, pirates don't care what DRM you use. I would likely purchase a copy of KB:WotN from other services that do not have the Steamworks DRM, such as Impulse.


So not only have I bought a second copy from GOG.com but if you would also release Crossworlds on GOG.com I would buy it in a second. Literally, I will spend the money all over again to have the game DRM free even though I use and enjoy Steam.

I purchased my original copy of KB:CW from Impulse and a second copy of KB:TL from GOG, primarily so I don't have keep the original CD-ROM in my computer. I would happily purchase KB:WotN from Impulse, if offered. I have no issue with activation limits, so long as I can recover them by uninstalling the game - it's the other DRM/Steam issues I choose not to accept. And I likely would purchase a backup via GOG, if KB:CW or KB:WotN are offered there.

I certainly understand why developers are concerned enough about piracy - especially when a game is first released - to want a DRM option. But as a buyer, I choose to opt out of such games. If 1C releases the game later without DRM, I'll snap it up. Unfortunately, that means I have to wait, and 1C will likely get less money from me (later releases are usually discounted), but that's the company's option. They aren't doing anything wrong by offering only Steamworks, but they are limiting their pool of potential customers.

To those who do get the game - enjoy!

[Sneaksie]

Steamworks isn't a DRM, it is a bigger thing like framework. It contains Steam DRM, but much more importantly it allows achievements, leaderboard, storing saves in the cloud, that kind of stuff.

Steam DRM is actually one of the less intrusive DRM solutions available now. We decided not to add any third-party DRM like Tages, Proactive or one of others to the game (some titles on Steam have a third-party DRM and some don't), so if you're anti-DRM you can be assured we're not trying to limit a freedom of legitimate buyers while trying to minimize piracy.

As it was already mentioned many times, after installing a Steam game and running it you can switch Steam to offline mode and you won't need to connect to Internet to play. Of course achievements and other online features like cloud stuff won't work, but you'll be able to play the game wherever you want, on a laptop in a middle of a forest if you'd like to. Personally I find this cloud saving very convenient, you can play on different PCs and have your progress synchronized. Of course Steam also means automatically delivered updates so don't forget to connect to Internet sometimes to make sure you won't miss them

[Dwagginz]

Steam is third-party DRM, and it's about as intrusive as a bulldozer knocking down one of your walls. First-party DRM is, say, Ubisoft's UPlay system.

And the offline mode is, as far as I remember, about as stable as... something very unstable. The automatic updates also mean you're stuck (as in STUCK) if an update breaks the game because you can't roll back, you can't choose your version and so on. You're giving up your freedom for features that you might not ever use (I've got Cloud Saves turned off because it's malfunctioned before and I almost lost 10-20hrs of progress on Saints Row the Third, not to mention the issues Dungeons of Dredmor appears to have with Steam Cloud at times).

It's probably the most "acceptable" form of DRM behind single-activation/online-activation SecuROM, but it's not exactly the Holy Grail of Content Protection.

[Ragnin]

Originally Posted by Dwagginz

And the offline mode is, as far as I remember, about as stable as... something very unstable. The automatic updates also mean you're stuck (as in STUCK) if an update breaks the game because you can't roll back, you can't choose your version and so on.

I had problems with the auto update thing as well when Skyrim would release a new major patch and suddenly my game crashes ever 10 mins. No way to roll back and now way to install the previous stable version by reinstalling it. Have to wait days or weeks for either a fan fix or another update and hope it fix's it. That was very frustrating. I also really dislike their refusal to give refunds on games that are completely broken but that's more personal.
Mostly I can not stand having to have another program have to launch and be running just to play a different one. It eats resources and as minor as it is I really don't like having to wait several second or mins to start my game because a different program has to update, or realize there is no internet and so have to restart in offline mode. Many of these things are minor but there is enough of them that unless a game is really good I'll just pass or wait.

So while I really wish I could buy this game I'll pass, If a gog.com version comes out I'll buy that right off. Same if a gog version of Crossworlds comes out. Until then I'll wait.

[Dwagginz]

Could be wrong, but can't you only start Steam's offline mode if you're online?

[saroumana]

You can disable auto-update on steam, so what the problem ? Also you can ask to a refund if the game don't work.

The only problem with steam is the price : they're more expensible than other platform.

[mbpopolano24]

Originally Posted by Dwagginz

Could be wrong, but can't you only start Steam's offline mode if you're online?

Correct. You can ONLY start offline if you did it while in online mode. So if you lose connection and forgot to go offline, well, you can't play.

Also, all very true about waiting time, forced updates that can ruin your game (same happened to me for Fallout NV after 50 hours playing, an update broke it for me and I was not able to play again for weeks, until a FAN-made fix came out...)

Look, I understand why some people like Steam and do not understand these problems. I sometimes can use a very fast, ALWAYS online connection and I don't even notice Steam. Everything is quick, fast, smooth.

But to play I have to use a very slow and unreliable connection most of the times, and then my life become very complicated. I play to enjoy life, not to have even more problems and frustration.

In sum, I adore this series, played them all and loved them all, and I have always pre-order and played full price to support them. But this move to Steam only is just... wrong.

Developers need to get in their head the NO DRM works. Most people are honest, and will support their game. Pirates will steal their game anyway. Look what’s happening in Kickstartert and GOG. I love GOG, I snatch every good game from there even if I have already a copy. You can save your digital copy and install it anywhere, anytime, no problems.

[Mygaffer]

Originally Posted by Dwagginz

Could be wrong, but can't you only start Steam's offline mode if you're online?

I have to say I have never had a problem with offline mode. In fact even if you lose Internet before you go into offline mode you still have 90 days, three months, before you have to connect again.

I know some people have reported problems, maybe that was with older versions of Steam, I know Steam is a LOT better now than when I first started using it in 2007.

I hope no one skips the game because of Steamworks but I understand if they do. As other have alluded to version control, offline access, privacy and security concerns with third party software, I get all of that. GOG.com is always my first choice but of course for now the reality is that we must settle for other things.

In fact to "settle" for Steam is about as good as you can really get barring a real DRM-free version.

[Mygaffer]

Originally Posted by Sneaksie

Steamworks isn't a DRM, it is a bigger thing like framework. It contains Steam DRM, but much more importantly it allows achievements, leaderboard, storing saves in the cloud, that kind of stuff.

Steam DRM is actually one of the less intrusive DRM solutions available now. We decided not to add any third-party DRM like Tages, Proactive or one of others to the game (some titles on Steam have a third-party DRM and some don't), so if you're anti-DRM you can be assured we're not trying to limit a freedom of legitimate buyers while trying to minimize piracy.

As it was already mentioned many times, after installing a Steam game and running it you can switch Steam to offline mode and you won't need to connect to Internet to play. Of course achievements and other online features like cloud stuff won't work, but you'll be able to play the game wherever you want, on a laptop in a middle of a forest if you'd like to. Personally I find this cloud saving very convenient, you can play on different PCs and have your progress synchronized. Of course Steam also means automatically delivered updates so don't forget to connect to Internet sometimes to make sure you won't miss them

I will address your response. As I said I use Steam and do not mind purchasing games that use Steamworks. That being said Steamworks is DRM. It ALSO allows for those things you mention, in fact that is why I use Steam, for the convience and other services, such as matchmaking in some games, friends lists, overlay, in-game web browser, etc.

Some people don't want to think "If Valve goes out of business I lose all my games" or "If I can't get online I can't install my game".

Even with offline mode if you want to reinstall you must connect again. Even old style DRM that required a disc in the drive did not require you to ever have an active Internet connection to install.

That is why GOG.com is SO great. You can download the installer and then not worry about it. I have my server with a large RAID 50 array, so I keep all my GOG.com installers there. So no matter what happens, even if a nuclear war happens and the Internet is gone but somehow my computer still works I can install these games.

The reality is that Steam is not very onerus and I hope most people still buy your wonderful game. I already have! But just know that there is a market for the completely DRM free version of the game. I will GLADLY buy this game a second time if and when you release it on GOG.com.

Perhaps to celebrate the release of Warriors of the North you could go back and release Crossworlds and Platinum on GOG.com? I will buy my second copies!

Thanks guys,
Mygaffer