A potential fix for the Aircraft visibility problems?

[SlipBall]

zapatista, waiting for any changes from the team may take awhile. Why not just buy a Planar SA 2311W, if I remember right it, was only 220.- or so.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

Why not just buy a Planar SA 2311W, if I remember right it, was only 220.- or so.

because compensating for one error by introducing other errors just leads to further problems down the line i, and most people here, also use their pc setup for a whole host of other purposes, and reducing quality has other flow on effects. i agree with you however that for people buying a new monitor for il2/CoD, this is something they should maybe consider. but then again we also need to advise those people to set their monitors to lower resolutions so dots and LoD models stand out more (and distort their color setups, a well calibrated monitor is again a potential disadvantage)

or instead luthier could fix the dot/LoD visibility issue, and we can all enjoy the glory of the new CoD scenery in its greatest beauty possible, as well as our hardware will allow

i prefer option b)

btw, using a 6 bit monitor doesnt really "solve" the issue, it just makes it significantly easier to spot a small moving dot (eg il2/CoD distant aircraft) against a static terrain scenery. even with that "glitter artifact" present under those conditions it still doesnt provide correct viewing/spotting/tracking/identification distances in CoD. for ex just try and fly over an airfield at 1250 meters and look down to see if you can spot static parked small aircraft or see individual vehicles driving around, i bet you cant (dont use a zoomed view, use a correct FoV for your monitor size only !!). yet in real life you could/can, that's the issue. its just that during these debates a small group of people has *less* of an issue with this, and that is where the 6 bit monitors come in

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by zapatista

because compensating for one error by introducing other errors just leads to further problems down the line i, and most people here, also use their pc setup for a whole host of other purposes, and reducing quality has other flow on effects.

i agree with you however that for people buying a new monitor for il2/CoD, this is something they should maybe consider. but then again we also need to advise those people to set their monitors to lower resolutions so dots and LoD models stand out more (and distort their color setups, a well calibrated monitor is again a potential disadvantage)

or instead luthier could fix the dot/LoD visibility issue, and we can all enjoy the glory of the new CoD scenery in its greatest beauty possible, as well as our hardware will allow

i prefer option b)

btw, using a 6 bit monitor doesnt really "solve" the issue, it just makes it significantly easier to spot a small moving dot (eg il2/CoD distant aircraft) against a static terrain scenery. even with that "glitter artifact" present under those conditions it still doesnt provide correct viewing/spotting/tracking/identification distances in CoD. for ex just try and fly over an airfield at 1250 meters and look down to see if you can spot static parked small aircraft or see individual vehicles driving around, i bet you cant (dont use a zoomed view, use a correct FoV for your monitor size only !!). yet in real life you could/can, that's the issue. its just that during these debates a small group of people has *less* of an issue with this, and that is where the 6 bit monitors come in

I took the zapatista challenge, and yes the static aircraft are clearly visible for me 1250m. I had a truck driving around the aircraft, I would spot it, and then loose it at times...I'll edit, and post some shots...let me say that the shots are not as clear as viewed while flying

Sunrise, 1250m, 12 static Bf 109, one truck...just past wing end




high noon, just ahead of leading edge

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

I took the zapatista challenge, and yes the static aircraft are clearly visible for me 1250m. I had a truck driving around the aircraft, I would spot it, and then loose it at times...I'll edit, and post some shots.

lol, great

why dont you take this one step further and make it usefull for the rest of us !

make a recording track of your "event" so the rest of us can replay it on our own CoD and see what visibility we have. if i understand correctly how the il2 tracks work, and somebody correct me if i am wrong, playing the track will in effect recreate the event on our pc using our own CoD program (and use its detail and option settings) so the distant LoD and dots are recreated, not just "displayed as a recorded video clip" (if you see what i mean)

if that is correct, it should work fine as a comparison method to determine who can see what on their different systems

SlipBall, please make sure you are at 1200 meters and dont use a "zoomed view", because that is the equivalent of using a pair of binoculars strapped to your pilots head. use "normal view" (untill hopefully in the next patch luthier will allow us to set specific FoV's we are stuck with the 3 pre-defined ones). planes parked on the ground must be stationary (truck/tank can be driving around)

ps: dont have a truck "driving around the aircraft" plz (creates the same repeated movements in one specific location), just have a truck driving from point A to point B somewhere on the airfield, or drive in a wide loop as you might want to overfly the airfield several times. a single or multiple trucks driving on a small open road is also a good sample for our purposes.

[SlipBall]

OK, just one thing though, this will be the first track I ever made (crazy right!). How do you/where will I find it/ how do I package it?

[zapatista]

when you make the track, give it a name that is easy to identify, because you then next need to go look in the folder where il2/CoD saves its tracks. then just rar or zip up the track into an archive file and upload it on the web somewhere

[zapatista]

slipball,
i cant see anything there at your wingtip that would specifically represent a small prop aircraft or a truck, and i expanded the screenshots you posted to full size on my 27' monitor and looked over the area just above your wing tip with a magnifying glass

i dont doubt you see something, but i dont think it illustrates what allied pilots were describing when talking about going on a free hunt after the normandy invasion, and being able to pick out individual german tanks/trucks stationary in a field, or moving on a road. even if there was something to see in the screenshot you posted, i think it would represent what YOU can see on your setup, rather then have each of us looking at the same scenery from the same distances on our own pc setups.

a ingame recorded track might do that (hopefully somebody here knows more about how they work exactly when replayed on other pc's)

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by zapatista

~ (dont use a zoomed view, use a correct FoV for your monitor size only !!). ~

"the correct FoV for any monitor is between 60 ~ 75 degrees... and "zooming" in or out, is an adjustment of the FoV.

Field of View does funny things with Depth of Field, and that is where your "problem" is.


ATM, the FoV for outside view in the sim is set to (iirc) 30 degrees


Seriously.. if you want the "problem" solved, get three monitors and set the view port on each monitor to 20 ~ 25 degrees... don't put 60 ~ 75 degrees across the whole thing .
This puts the monitors into the viewer's 60 degree of vision and gives the more realistic real world seeing without flying in myopic tunnel vision

[SlipBall]

From a earlier release just as a comparison

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

"the correct FoV for any monitor is between 60 ~ 75 degrees...

nope, that is not correct.

you already went 20 pages in this forum with somebody a few months ago who patiently tried to explain to you how FoV works, and i will summarize it here for the benefit of other readers who might not have thought about this issue yet.

basically, however wide your monitor is in front of you, for any given distance you sit from it, it will occupy a specific section of your forward 180 degree vision, that section is the "percentage of your forward field of view it occupies". (ie should be equivalent to the FoV setting in CoD)

for me for ex when i sit approx 60 cm from my 27' monitor, it roughly takes up 55% of my field of view (which you can calculate exactly), and if i only had a 14' monitor from the same viewing distance it would occupy roughly 1/2 of that. note: if you use the formulae to calculate your personal FoV, dont confuse diagonal monitor size measurement with how "wide" it is (which is the value to be used in calculating FoV)
- if you set that "correct FoV" for your monitor in CoD the idea is that you will then be able to see all ingame objects in their 1:1 correct sizes displayed on your monitor (eg, depending on how far away they are from you in the game, and the object sizes). which leads us to out current discussion thread, re: can you in CoD correctly see these distant aircraft/trucks/tanks from the same distances as in real life, well NO you cant currently (but it is less bad then in the old il2 series). hence we are trying to discuss "amplification" methods to make some of these object stand out better (see OP).

using a smaller then "correct FoV" for your monitor in CoD will work like a magnifier (but simultaneously reducing your peripheral vision), because you have taken a smaller part of your field of vision and stretched it across a larger surface (to keep it simple), similarly setting a wider FoV will give you artificially more peripheral vision but everything (in game objects) will be squashed into a smaller display surface and hence shrinks in size (again simplifying the concept).

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

and "zooming" in or out, is an adjustment of the FoV.

think of it as the other way around, its easier. increasing or decreasing your FoV (from your "correct" setting) is like zooming out and in. and obviously no ww2 pilot had a magic zoom binocular strapped to his forehead, so using that is in effect "gaming the game", or if you want to put it nicer "overcoming partially the limitations of sitting behind a monitor in your living room, compared to looking out the windscreen of a real aircraft".

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

if you want the "problem" solved, get three monitors ................and gives the more realistic real world seeing without flying in myopic tunnel vision

so your solution for not being able to get correct object visibility on one monitor (correctly adjust for right FoV for that user) in CoD is to put 3 badly adjust monitors next to each other to display a "faulty" game that still doesnt provide correct distant object visibility ? putting 3 monitors next to each other and adjusting the FoV correctly should still uses the same method i mentioned above to determine correct FoV setting across the collective display surface, its just a larger surface with a larger total FoV (and would be calculated the same way)

to not further sidetrack, this current discussion is focused on determining how bad the visibility error is for distant objects in CoD,, to suggest possible ways to improve it (eg make the game more correctly SIMULATE what a real ww2 pilot would see from his aircraft), and potentially try and figure out who here with what hardware has the least problems (with one of the main variables thus far identified being the lcd screen type used)