Friday the 14th Development Update

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by furbs

What amazes me is, why some people think BOM is going to be any better than COD.

jeez gosh, now lemme think, mmmmm what could it possibly be ? is life really that hard to understand wherever you'r at ?

first, the gfx engine is actually working now, which was the main cause of problems at release time
second, creating new objects and scenery for the new maps is a minor element that can be delegated to a few specific staff (other then the detailed new plane models which take more time and which uses a few other specially skilled people)
third, whatever else is currently a problem, AI, FM and DM's etc, they will have had a good year to focus on it without other distractions, which means it will be significantly better, which means in turn we will have crossed the threshold of the overall package being playable. fine tuning of individual plane performances can still continue later on (which is one of the things current CoD fighter aircraft badly need)

does that mean BoM will be perfect or the end all and be all of the new sim series, nope of course not, but it will work reasonably well out of the box and wont have the major problems CoD had. see, wasnt all that hard really

to now already waste time whining about future imperfections of other SoW projects just shows the stunted destructive and self defeating mindset some are locked into. now go and donate 10$ to your local favored charity, and forever open that box no more

[J.Reb]

zapatista -

"sequel will work reasonably well out of the box and wont have the major problems CoD had."

Can I quote you on that?

[jibo]

Oh my CoD !

[furbs]

Originally Posted by zapatista

jeez gosh, now lemme think, mmmmm what could it possibly be ? is life really that hard to understand wherever you'r at ?

first, the gfx engine is actually working now, which was the main cause of problems at release time
second, creating new objects and scenery for the new maps is a minor element that can be delegated to a few specific staff (other then the detailed new plane models which take more time and which uses a few other specially skilled people)
third, whatever else is currently a problem, AI, FM and DM's etc, they will have had a good year to focus on it without other distractions, which means it will be significantly better, which means in turn we will have crossed the threshold of the overall package being playable. fine tuning of individual plane performances can still continue later on (which is one of the things current CoD fighter aircraft badly need)

does that mean BoM will be perfect or the end all and be all of the new sim series, nope of course not, but it will work reasonably well out of the box and wont have the major problems CoD had. see, wasnt all that hard really

to now already waste time whining about future imperfections of other SoW projects just shows the stunted destructive and self defeating mindset some are locked into

Zap, you think the engine is working? not on my planet its not...

No AA
No X64bit
No DX11
The clouds, particles, smoke and hit affects are still not working as intended.
Tree's and shadows still flicker and shimmer.
View range for aircraft is still way too low, with mid and far LOD's that are horrible.
Ground object view distance is terrible and make bombing missions almost unplayable.
Craters and far objects still show through landscape and cockpits.
Mirrors still dont work.

That to me is not a working GFX engine.

As for my view on BOM, im judging it on the 8 years of development plus 18 months post release of COD.

I remember when a few of us said it was not looking good for COD before release, and you kept telling us we were wrong and COD would be great, well here we go again...

Zap, here's my prediction(make a note) BOM will be more of the same, just with different aircraft and maps. The same bugs and problems and then the same promises and excuses from the devs about how they need a bit more time to get things right.

If they could get it right, they would of by now, is 18 months not enough?

[Feathered_IV]

Vague, cryptic and veiled answers don't just make themselves. They take time. Steady chaps, they'll be along in a bit.

Agree with Furbs 100%. Zap was convinced that CLOD would be wonderful on release, but he as only just aquired it after someone gave him a copy, he went to ground after release when he found out how bad the game was, but good to have him back even if no lessons have been learnt.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by Tree_UK

Agree with Furbs 100%. Zap was convinced that CLOD would be wonderful on release, but he as only just aquired it after someone gave him a copy, he went to ground after release when he found out how bad the game was, but good to have him back even if no lessons have been learnt.

ahh tree again with his lies and personal insults, plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

i really hope for your sake you are putting on an act, because if this is really the best of your deductive reasoning effort after 1.5 million years of evolution, we might as well let climate change run rampant and have it flush your genetic line away

correction 1: as previously documented i was given a copy of the sim shortly after release (when i already had made the decision to delay purchasing it because of the large amount of problems reported)
correction 2: i been right here tree, since 2007, its you that's been gone for extended periods because you keep getting banned, found those interruptions confusing ?
correction 3: i still bought the sim once patches were released that indicated improvements to make some small token act of support to something i believe in, and yea baby, since the last beta patch its actually playable on my mid range pc and starting to look good

now just make sure you ignore facts tree, spread your little lies, keep thread crapping and keep misleading people in flightsim forums, and ........ make sure you blindly and doggedly ignore anything good or positive about SoW

[zapatista]

ooops sorry Uther

didnt see your last post while i was typing

Originally Posted by zapatista

ahh tree again with his lies and personal insults, plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

i really hope for your sake you are putting on an act, because if this is really the best of your deductive reasoning effort after 1.5 million years of evolution, we might as well let climate change run rampant and have it flush your genetic line away

correction 1: as previously documented i was given a copy of the sim shortly after release (when i already had made the decision to delay purchasing it because of the large amount of problems reported)
correction 2: i been right here tree, since 2007, its you that's been gone for extended periods because you keep getting banned, found those interruptions confusing ?
correction 3: i still bought the sim once patches were released that indicated improvements to make some small token act of support to something i believe in, and yea baby, since the last beta patch its actually playable on my mid range pc and starting to look good

now just make sure you ignore facts tree, spread your little lies, keep thread crapping and keep misleading people in flightsim forums, and ........ make sure you blindly and doggedly ignore anything good or positive about SoW

lol,

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by furbs

Zap, you think the engine is working? not on my planet its not...

let me show you the light !

No AA ? not important in the grand scheme of things (right now), can be dealt with later
No X64bit ? most russian customers pc's still run on 32 bit hardware/software
No DX11 ? most russian customers pc's still run on dx9 (see earlier stats quoted by B6). some of us here seem to forget the il2 and SoW series are primarily aimed at the russian/east-block market, having it released to the west is a very secondary aspect. we will get 64bit and dx11, it just wont be very soon for these obvious reasons, and stomping our little feet on the ground about it wont change anything in that regard.
The clouds ? yeps we all want/like nicer and newer clouds, not a show stopper (as long as terrain and cloud masking works for AI's)
particles, smoke ? eh buy a bigger and better pc if you want those, its high end eye candy for the rich
hit affects are still not working as intended ? easy fix
Tree's and shadows still flicker and shimmer ? tree collision models is probably a resource issue, right now we have more visible trees in a very large landscape then any other flight sim and we just aint got the pc's to crunch that number. i suspect that might not be solved even by BoM release (hope it will), just remeber you are buying a flight sim, not a tree sim the shimmer and flikker is a gfx bug, relatively simple to fix and will be done (since other speed tree sims dont have this problem)
View range for aircraft is still way too low, with mid and far LOD's that are horrible ? yups i find that a MAJOR issue, but it is relatively easy to fix. CoD uses up to 10 LoD models versus the 3 in il2-1946, now the gfx engine is fixed altering the visibility of the more distant LoD models is fairly simple (not that i trust luthier to understand its importance, and be willing to direct this as a priority fix that will have a big positive impact on gameplay.
Ground object view distance is terrible and make bombing missions almost unplayable ? is linked to LoD models and a temporary byproduct of the new and improved gfx engine, again relatively easy to fix
Craters and far objects still show through landscape and cockpits ? annoying yes, but technically a minor issue to resolve, easy fix
Mirrors still dont work ? real men dont need mirrors ! you should be chasing the enemy, not let him chase you ! j/k, easy fix obviously (other then it being a resource hog, so must of us wont be able to switch it on even if it works)

That to me is not a working GFX engine: that to me is no reason to be a drama queen 6 - 9 months before release and imply the sky is falling in we now have a basically working gfx engine and most main area's are already working and near completion. its largely a bug fixing stage now rather then new content creation (other then a few people working on new aircraft and objects etc). that is a very different stage of completion than having a non working gfx engine and main missing elements at the point CoD was released. and the good news is that they have a number of other very advanced elements that can be quickly included later on once the main sim is working (pilots with animation, control of vehicles, advanced weather systems etc..). in late 2012 the whole paradigm is rather different them may 2011, most here should be able to see this.

Originally Posted by furbs

I remember when a few of us said it was not looking good for COD before release, and you kept telling us we were wrong and COD would be great, well here we go again...

if you are ignoring large parts of reality no wonder you cant arrive at the right conclusions. the ONLY issue with the CoD problems is the forced premature release of an unfinished sim, nothing else. you can either choose between NOTHING or the buggy beta we had in the last 12 months. for me personally i think that giving them some beer money to allow them to keep plodding on for another 12 to 18 months is a pretty good deal to still have the hope of eventually getting a decent and reasonably rounded product at the end. you see anybody else doing this kinda work for an in depth ww2 sim, me thinks not (and dont bother listing a few that are vaguely in that direction but each have much larger holes to fill before they even come close)

Originally Posted by furbs

Zap, here's my prediction(make a note) BOM will be more of the same, just with different aircraft and maps. The same bugs and problems and then the same promises and excuses from the devs about how they need a bit more time to get things right.

then my only question to you is, what have you personally done over this CoD time period to increase or decrease the odds of BoM being a good/better product or resolve and help fix CoD's faults and short coming ? lets be clear now, you are part of the problem furbs, you'r not part of the solution