71/2 Minutes at +11 Boost, Spit Ia100oct

[ATAG_Dutch]

Just to update the info a touch:

Instead of testing, I've been flying for fun over the last few days and found an even simpler solution for the 100oct settings.

Before take-off, again set rad at 50% and leave it there. Mixture lever fully back. Take-off at 3000rpm, gear up, level off and allow airspeed to build to 185mph. Drop to +3 boost, lower revs to 2400 and forget them. Leave them there.

Throttle back up to +6 boost. By now you'll be doing about 200mph on the flat. Turn towards the sun and climb (never climb away from the sun, you never know who's watching). You'll get a climb rate of initially over 3000fpm dropping to 2500fpm as speed drops to 185mph. Trim for climb at this speed.

As you hit around 12,000ft you'll see temps start to rise. Throttle back to +5 boost, or level off a bit to increase airspeed. This will keep things cool. Twiddle mixture a bit to ensure blue flame.

Go jerry hunting.

Above 14,000ft, emergency boost doesn't give any real benefits, so leaving engine at these +5 to +6/2400/mixture back settings will give good performance against 109s. BUT!! If they dive away (as they tend to), punch the emergency boost, firewall it and set mixture full forward, as it certainly does work the lower you go.

With the +11boost/2400rpm/mixture forward/50% rad settings the 109s will get the shock of their lives. Just don't be tempted to alter either pitch or rad settings.

This doesn't mean that the devs don't need to change some things, but we shall see.

Stick to these golden rules and the current 100oct is very competitive.

[Momod]

Nice work Dutch,
I also found the 2400 RPM settings to be ideal for climbing out etc, but on some occasions that I have increased revs or used boost and forgot to keep a close eye on the temps the inevitable happens and its RTB with a damaged engine. There are some other good pointers you have posted as well and I`ll be certainly try them out later
~S~ 56RAF Rumba

[ATAG_Dutch]

P.S. If a 109 climbs vertically, do not follow. You will lose too much airspeed and your engine will overheat.

Instead, circle and maintain your airspeed at your current altitude. Eventually he will come down, at a much slower speed than you. Use the superior manoeuvrabilty of the Spit plus the above settings to get on his six and shred him.

I now ask for a bar to my DFC.

[trademe900]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Dutch

P.S. If a 109 climbs vertically, do not follow. You will lose too much airspeed and your engine will overheat.

Instead, circle and maintain your airspeed at your current altitude. Eventually he will come down, at a much slower speed than you. Use the superior manoeuvrabilty of the Spit plus the above settings to get on his six and shred him.

I now ask for a bar to my DFC.

Not enough.

He will just come down for a pass on you after his climb and then accelerate up and away again while you circle helplessly beneath him...

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by trademe900

Not enough.

He will just come down for a pass on you after his climb and then accelerate up and away again while you circle helplessly beneath him...

Sorry, I should've clarified. If you start in a co-alt situation and he climbs vertically......etc.

If he's already got altitude on you, dodge the first pass, wait for him to pass below you, quickly reverse your turn and get some shots in.

C'mon..who do you think I am? Sailor Malan?

[ATAG_Snapper]

I've now had a half dozen one-on-one engagements with 109's flying the Spitfire 1a 100 octane, at various altitudes and situations. I had earlier abandoned the 1a in CoD in favour of the Spitfire MK 1 2-speed prop since the latter wasn't so prone to overheating and had some advantages above FTH of ~ 16 angels. Based on Dutch's recent settings recommendations, I decided to give the 1a 100 octane another try.

It didn't start too well. The 109's have ample raw horsepower and I indeed overheated my engine twice in successive engagements trying to match -- and overtake -- a co-e 109 in a climb each time, desperately trying for a guns solution. Both times the engine blew I lost power in a very disadvantageous position. In both cases I immediately rolled into a vertical dive from well over 10,000 feet, keeping my speed below the 420 mph IAS lose-your-control-surfaces speed. (that's another issue for another time). Each time I was lucky that my opponent either lost sight of me against the terrain, or more likely he opted not to lose precious height over English soil.

A quick, if frustrated, discussion with Dutch brought these simple "dogfight rules" to bear. Other than checking your gauges before engaging, during the fight itself is no time to be taking your eyes off your opponent to verify temps, or moving levers about. So best to stick to this:

1) set rpms to 2400 with prop pitch (CSP) and leave it there
2) set rad to 50% open and leave it there
3) mixture pulled back to full Auto Rich and leave it there
4) keep boost cut out override CLOSED, limiting your boost to 6.2 lbs (less above 16 angels). EXCEPTION: if you're gonna die anyway (and you're 10 angels or less for this to work) open the BCOO gate and push your throttle to 11 lbs boost, and push your mixture lever forward into full Auto Lean (yeah, weird, I know). You've got 20 seconds to save your life; make each second count. Then pull your throttle back to 3 - 5 lbs boost, close the BCOO gate (if you remember), and fly level or a slight dive to cool your temps quickly.

5) accept the fact the 109's are faster, have more horsepower in the climb, and can out dive you. Their guns are better, their engines are more durable re overheating, they have much, much less radiator drag, and their engines don't cut out on neg g's. Other than this, the advantages are all yours: greater sustained turn, less nasty stalls & spins, better vision rearwards. And Spits are prettier than 109's. Never, NEVER let your speed decrease below 200 mph IAS at any time in combat. You climb after a 109 your engine will overheat as you slow down, PLUS you lose your maneuvrability and become an easy target. As Dutch said, wait for the 109 to commit to his dive on you. Be unpredictable, and chose a direction to start your turn. Turn gently at first to preserve your speed, then tighten progressively as he draws closer behind you. As he dives past, as Dutch said, reverse your turn quickly, kicking hard rudder to assist and chase down after him. Pull your sights through him as he pulls out and give a burst as he disappears beneath your nose. DO NOT FOLLOW HIM UP AS HE ZOOMS. Drop your nose and regain your airspeed -- change your course and clear your six. Do not play his game by circling underneath. Force his play by moving off, and try to regain some alt by gently climbing -- even 500 fpm if it allows you to maintain 200 mph IAS.

Boom and zooming is not as easy as many 109 pilots make it look. They happen to be very, very good at it, mainly by lots of practice on you and me. It requires excellent judgement skills in predicting where you'll be as they dive within gun/cannon range, and what you'll probably do to react as they're coming at you. Be unpredictable, and make opportunities to get a shot in -- if you clip their elevator they have a problem.

If there are two 109's and only one of you: SCRAM OUTTA THERE!

Until the devs see fit to fix the Spit and Hurri FM's to spec, this is the best we can do. Hope it helps.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Nice post Snapper.

Uh-oh. We're talking 'tactics'. Any minute now, someone'll jump in and say 'told you so'.

Unfortunately, it's not just tactics. There is strong relationship between lowering airspeed and overheating in the RAF planes which doesn't seem to exist in the LW planes. Plus the RAF radiators cause massive drag when opened beyond 50%.

The only reason we can't follow the 109s upwards is due to overheating when using higher performance engine settings as airspeed decreases.

It's currently an unfair advantage to the 109s. Simple as that.

We can try to use tactics to overcome this engine modelling problem, but we can't solve it. Only the developers can do that.

One thing in Snapper's post I'd differ with though, is that BCO is very useable below 10,000 with 2400rpm and 50% rad, mixture forward. It can be used as in the video. But you need to make sure of the airspeed. I can't emphasize this enough. You need the airspeed to use the additional power. Don't use BCO to speed your aircraft up from low airspeed. Get the airspeed up first, then punch the emergency boost for more speed. If you try to accelerate from low speed using BCO, you will blow up.

Oh, and you'll run out of petrol very quickly using +11 boost, as I found out last night to my cost!!

[trademe900]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper

I've now had a half dozen one-on-one engagements with 109's flying the Spitfire 1a 100 octane, at various altitudes and situations. I had earlier abandoned the 1a in CoD in favour of the Spitfire MK 1 2-speed prop since the latter wasn't so prone to overheating and had some advantages above FTH of ~ 16 angels. Based on Dutch's recent settings recommendations, I decided to give the 1a 100 octane another try.

It didn't start too well. The 109's have ample raw horsepower and I indeed overheated my engine twice in successive engagements trying to match -- and overtake -- a co-e 109 in a climb each time, desperately trying for a guns solution. Both times the engine blew I lost power in a very disadvantageous position. In both cases I immediately rolled into a vertical dive from well over 10,000 feet, keeping my speed below the 420 mph IAS lose-your-control-surfaces speed. (that's another issue for another time). Each time I was lucky that my opponent either lost sight of me against the terrain, or more likely he opted not to lose precious height over English soil.

A quick, if frustrated, discussion with Dutch brought these simple "dogfight rules" to bear. Other than checking your gauges before engaging, during the fight itself is no time to be taking your eyes off your opponent to verify temps, or moving levers about. So best to stick to this:

1) set rpms to 2400 with prop pitch (CSP) and leave it there
2) set rad to 50% open and leave it there
3) mixture pulled back to full Auto Rich and leave it there
4) keep boost cut out override CLOSED, limiting your boost to 6.2 lbs (less above 16 angels). EXCEPTION: if you're gonna die anyway (and you're 10 angels or less for this to work) open the BCOO gate and push your throttle to 11 lbs boost, and push your mixture lever forward into full Auto Lean (yeah, weird, I know). You've got 20 seconds to save your life; make each second count. Then pull your throttle back to 3 - 5 lbs boost, close the BCOO gate (if you remember), and fly level or a slight dive to cool your temps quickly.

5) accept the fact the 109's are faster, have more horsepower in the climb, and can out dive you. Their guns are better, their engines are more durable re overheating, they have much, much less radiator drag, and their engines don't cut out on neg g's. Other than this, the advantages are all yours: greater sustained turn, less nasty stalls & spins, better vision rearwards. And Spits are prettier than 109's. Never, NEVER let your speed decrease below 200 mph IAS at any time in combat. You climb after a 109 your engine will overheat as you slow down, PLUS you lose your maneuvrability and become an easy target. As Dutch said, wait for the 109 to commit to his dive on you. Be unpredictable, and chose a direction to start your turn. Turn gently at first to preserve your speed, then tighten progressively as he draws closer behind you. As he dives past, as Dutch said, reverse your turn quickly, kicking hard rudder to assist and chase down after him. Pull your sights through him as he pulls out and give a burst as he disappears beneath your nose. DO NOT FOLLOW HIM UP AS HE ZOOMS. Drop your nose and regain your airspeed -- change your course and clear your six. Do not play his game by circling underneath. Force his play by moving off, and try to regain some alt by gently climbing -- even 500 fpm if it allows you to maintain 200 mph IAS.

Boom and zooming is not as easy as many 109 pilots make it look. They happen to be very, very good at it, mainly by lots of practice on you and me. It requires excellent judgement skills in predicting where you'll be as they dive within gun/cannon range, and what you'll probably do to react as they're coming at you. Be unpredictable, and make opportunities to get a shot in -- if you clip their elevator they have a problem.

If there are two 109's and only one of you: SCRAM OUTTA THERE!

Until the devs see fit to fix the Spit and Hurri FM's to spec, this is the best we can do. Hope it helps.

This is a really good post.

Just a thought: I find 2400 although good for outright speed is no good in dogfight, you lose speed too quickly. For dogfight I would rather choose more radiator but full rpm and even boost (if low altitude).

Still, the 109 will not die easily even when hit. It takes an eternity for it to overheat from damaged coolant system. Actually, this goes for all planes. Currently, hitting 109 fuel tank and waiting for it to run out of fuel is the fastest way to put one down.

Agree about the RAF flight models. Playing with engine temperature effects off is great to restore the flight models but then it becomes very hard to shoot down anything since the planes will not go down due to coolant system damage at all.

[ATAG_Colander]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper

Boom and zooming is not as easy as many 109 pilots make it look. They happen to be very, very good at it, mainly by lots of practice on you and me. It requires excellent judgement skills in predicting where you'll be as they dive within gun/cannon range, and what you'll probably do to react as they're coming at you. Be unpredictable, and make opportunities to get a shot in -- if you clip their elevator they have a problem.

Indeed. The advantage of BnZ is that, if done properly, can be done again and again.
The problem is that after a few passes, the pilot tends to get inpatient and that's when the mistakes happen. This is what you should try to force, mistakes, and is done by, as Snapper says, being unpredictable.

Note that every correction in trajectory a BnZ'er makes, implies loss of energy. If the BnZ'er looses that advantage, then the spits and hurris are in control of the fight.