Stability and Control characteristics of the Early Mark Spitfires

[NZtyphoon]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

Here is a little experiment you can do at home, NzTyphoon.

Make a paper airplane. Toss it.....

See how stable it flys.

Now add a paperclip to the nose and throw it again.

Which is more stable?

Go make your own paper aeroplanes: The NACA report concentrates on one aircraft which, in spite of your claims, may not have been correctly loaded:

Tony had been test flying correctly loaded Mk Vs with us at Supermarine and he knew very well the difference between a stable and unstable aeroplane.

Supermarine's Chief test pilot knew more about flying the Spitfire and its capabilities and characteristics than NACA and took he took urgent action when he realised that there was a problem with badly loaded Mk Vs.



You can interpret documents any way you like - fact is that there are other valid opinions which show that longitudinal stability only became a real issue when the loading instructions were ignored or misunderstood at an operational level. As for the excerpts from your book

the [stable] Hurricane, Typhoon and Tempest were highly manoeuverable and were greatly superior gun platforms to the skittish Spitfire.

This also falls down as a source because quite clearly some basic research is missing because both the typhoon and Tempest PNs state they were slightly unstable longitudinally, and only the Hurricane could turn inside the Spitfire... as for gun platform:



The pilot's notes were read in conjunction with the Pilot's Notes General: Note that the PNG carry similar warnings to those in the Spitfire PNs see (ii) which applied to all aircraft



You have not demonstrated that you are not applying a worst-case interpretation to both the NACA flight trials and PNs.

Nor have you explained how you propose to alter the flight characteristics of a computer based flight sim to accurately replicate this so-called instability considering the plethora of different set-ups used by players.

[MiG-3U]

Well, here we go again, the same stuff with flawed interpretation posted again and again.

Over and Out

[Al Schlageter]

Originally Posted by MiG-3U

Well, here we go again, the same stuff with flawed interpretation posted again and again.

Over and Out

Just like the 100 octane threads. Why does myopic tunnel vision come to mind?

[NZtyphoon]

Originally Posted by MiG-3U

Well, here we go again, the same stuff with flawed interpretation posted again and again.

Over and Out

At the very least putting a worst-case scenario on two documents while claiming that these alone are definitive proof of the Spitfire's bad longitudinal stability - when another NACA document on the Spitfire's stall characteristics was presented it was dismissed as being irrelevant:



It will be truly interesting to see how the proposed bug-tracker will define the "problem" and how it proposes to alter the Spitfire's flight characteristics to cater for a flight sim in which different equipment is used and tuned by individual players...

[IvanK]

Its been put in on bug tracker:

http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/415

Alas no proof or in game tests in the bug tracker entry to indicate CLOD Spit MKI is indeed flawed in the Sim.

[Glider]

A lot of energy is being spent on the Mk V which most would agree had an issue that was resolved by bob weights.
There seems to be no real evidence that a problem existed in the Mk I or II which were the versions used in the BOB

[Crumpp]

There seems to be no real evidence that a problem existed in the Mk I or II which were the versions used in the BOB

LOL...Really??

Spitfire Mk I Operating Notes, July 1940:

Longitudinally, the aircraft is stable with centre of gravity forward, but is unstable with centre of gravity normal and aft with engine 'OFF' and 'ON'.

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/k9787-fuel.html

[Glider]

Unfortunately for you there is little if any evidence of any bad outcomes. The first set of well worn docs are warning that obviously worked as wing failures were rare.

In July 1941 well after the BOB investigations were started. Had it been a problem in the bob the investigations would have started a lot earlier

And you have still to supply any evidence re the piles of wings waiting repair