Stability and Control characteristics of the Early Mark Spitfires

[NZtyphoon]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

Why does it matter, though? Historical trivia does not an engineer make. You can't prove someone isn't an engineer because they haven't heard of Somebody Lanchester.

If Crumpp wishes to make definitive statements and claims, based on a very small amount of evidence there's no reason they cannot be challenged.

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

And lastly, not that I really care, but if Britain had a unified standard in the 30s, then why is there a document from 1947 talking about developing one for the first time? I'm sure that the individual manufacturers did indeed have their own standards, but that's not being disputed.

If not for you convenience then I'll answer for others - if you bothered reading the 1938 doco you'll see that aeronautical development had outstripped the standards of the time, from biplane to monoplane, such that the RAE and Air Min were working with the aircraft industry to promulgate better standards. Now, what happened during WW2? Jet aircraft, high speed prop driven aircraft approaching the speed of sound etc etc so now a new set of standards had to be developed and introduced; basically aeronautics and aeronautical engineering were changing extremely quickly from the early to mid 1930s on, so I don't believe that it was possible for even NACA to devise and stick to a definitive set of "standards" in the way Crumpp claims. Think about it - how was it possible to use the same stability and control standards for a 150 mph biplane fighter as for a 450 mph monoplane?

[Crumpp]

same stability and control standards for a 150 mph biplane fighter as for a 450 mph monoplane

NzTtyphoon,

The basis for all modern stability and control was developed during World War II. Outside of Germany, the NACA was the worlds leading organization for Stability and Control.

Fredrick Lanchester did some pioneering work and is considered the foundation for stability and control. He correctly theorized on vortex theory of lift with gliders secured by wire, conceptulized aircraft oscillatory motion which he called "fleeing motion" instead of phugoid. He published several works and even spoke with the Wright Brothers in 1908.

None of this was put into any mathmatical definition. Fredrick Lanchester was not able to put his ideas into any useful mathmatical form.

I have been waiting for you to realize this since you brought it up. I have ignored most of what you write because it is obvious you argue based off emotional attachment and do not understand much of what you claim. It is another red herring like arguing for pages about a non-dimensional proportion.

[taildraggernut]

Despite these apparent 'adopted' standards, both the US and Germany produced aircraft that actually 'did' have dangerous flying qualities.

So the question is, what point are you trying to make with the assertions the British had no adopted standards? that every British aircraft was just a hit or miss lucky guess? all the British aircraft that had stable qualities were just 'flukes'?

[Glider]

Crumpp
Dyou remember saying this

Originally Posted by Crumpp

NzTtyphoon,

The basis for all modern stability and control was developed during World War II. Outside of Germany, the NACA was the worlds leading organization for Stability and Control.

well the person who wrote the paper starts it with

My career to the present has covered 58 years, all at Langley Research Center in Hampton, Virginia. At the start of my work, the center was called the Langley Memorial Aeronautical Laboratory of the NACA (National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics).

So we can take it that you will read and accept the paper, as it is written by someone who has vast experience in this field, in a place you acknowledge as being (in your words) the NACA was the worlds leading organization.

You also said this

According to all measured standards, it was....

The Operating Notes also reflect it as well as test pilots from England, United States, and Germany.

So why can you cannot find any examples of Test Pilots who say that it was difficult to fly? Its a fair question

[Crumpp]

So we can take it that you will read and accept the paper

Yes you can read the NACA report and the results are measured.

[taildraggernut]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

Yes.

You seemed to include a bit too much text so I edited your quote to what it should have been.

[winny]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

Yes you can read the NACA report and the results are measured.

For a Mk V..

[NZtyphoon]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

NzTtyphoon, The basis for all modern stability and control was developed during World War II. Outside of Germany, the NACA was the worlds leading organization for Stability and Control.

What, no "standards", just a basis? Developed DURING World War 2 because the pace of aeronautical development was such that it was impossible to develop a fixed set of standards -

Originally Posted by Crumpp

I have ignored most of what you write because it is obvious you argue based off emotional attachment and do not understand much of what you claim. It is another red herring like my emotional attachment to a 1938 planning document discussing 16 fighter squadrons using 100 octane fuel...