Goodbye combustion engine

[swiss]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

Some electric vehicles are claimed to give BETTER performance than the gas equivalent:

The advantage of e-engines is the fact the got 100% torque from almost 0rpm - no wonder they win.

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

If it becomes widespread it will also be cheap

The problem is not increased use but technology itself.
Production of H2 has only some 60% efficiency - i.e. for 100W you put into h2 production you'll get <60W worth of H2.
Of those 60W you'll lose another 50% if you turn them back into energy.

Using it on vehicle comes with a few other problems as well:
- 1L H2 = .3L gasoline
- H2 Tanks are tiny bit heavier than gasoline tanks

You basically use the same argument and hope for Fusion Power.

[Osprey]

Originally Posted by swiss

The advantage of e-engines is the fact the got 100% torque from almost 0rpm - no wonder they win.



The problem is not increased use but technology itself.
Production of H2 has only some 60% efficiency - i.e. for 100W you put into h2 production you'll get <60W worth of H2.
Of those 60W you'll lose another 50% if you turn them back into energy.

Using it on vehicle comes with a few other problems as well:
- 1L H2 = .3L gasoline
- H2 Tanks are tiny bit heavier than gasoline tanks

You basically use the same argument and hope for Fusion Power.

It's a very biased argument because you haven't included the efficiency of oil to petrol including finding it, drilling it out, transporting it and refining it.

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by Osprey

It's a very biased argument because you haven't included the efficiency of oil to petrol including finding it, drilling it out, transporting it and refining it.

Very true, and not to mention the energy efficiency of combustion engines themselves after everything else is said and done.

[He111]

so ... should I sell my oil shares yet?

I always thought bacterial oil would be the next big thing? pump hot C02 from power plants straight into a huge VAT .. add sunlight and you get oil.

.

[swiss]

Originally Posted by He111

so ... should I sell my oil shares yet?

I always thought bacterial oil would be the next big thing? pump hot C02 from power plants straight into a huge VAT .. add sunlight and you get oil.

.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1210162222.htm

isobutanol instead of oil maybe?

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by He111

so ... should I sell my oil shares yet?

I always thought bacterial oil would be the next big thing? pump hot C02 from power plants straight into a huge VAT .. add sunlight and you get oil.

.

Don't. There is more done with oil then just petrol. Everything that is made out of plastic, as a starting point. And given the rising costs of Oil exploitation, it won't become cheaper anytime soon. Even if the first western nations manage to switch over to alternatives, the BRICS and other developing countries will need a decade or two longer to provide similiar infrastructure. Petrol won't go away that fast.

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

Don't. There is more done with oil then just petrol. Everything that is made out of plastic, as a starting point. And given the rising costs of Oil exploitation, it won't become cheaper anytime soon. Even if the first western nations manage to switch over to alternatives, the BRICS and other developing countries will need a decade or two longer to provide similiar infrastructure. Petrol won't go away that fast.

The huge demand in SE Asia is for Diesel for trains, tractors, trucks and heavy equipment not Petrol. Commercial shipping is not going nuclear anytime in the near future and the consumption of Jet 1 and Avgas goes up every year. Oil is used for a lot more than powering the family car.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Being the green-eco-freek that I was turned into by my wife, I put a lot of effort into recycling, including used engine oil. I had always assumed that it was put back through the refinery to get useful products.

Then I read that all the oil from my location in the world gets sent up to SE Asia and burnt to produce power. Guess its recycling of a kind!

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by He111

so ... should I sell my oil shares yet?.

Yes..

To me!

[swiss]

Originally Posted by Osprey

It's a very biased argument because you haven't included the efficiency of oil to petrol including finding it, drilling it out, transporting it and refining it.

You'll have to transport H2 too, not such a huge difference there.
Actually you'll need triple the volume for the same amount of energy but we're going off track - this scenario is far away.

Very true, and not to mention the energy efficiency of combustion engines themselves after everything else is said and done.

Not really - we all know the combustion engine doenst really have a future.
What we do need to focus on how to feed them - it's absolutely irrelvant how efficent an otto engine is.

Baseline: It's not an alternative yet, longterm maybe - all we know is we'll need a sh1tload of energy in the future and we have absolutely no clue where to get if from.