Updated RAF FMs in 1.07.18301

[Glider]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

It is a fact that many Bf-109 pilots believed they had a turn advantage over the Spitfire.

This is often stated but I am not aware of many examples. Can I ask you to fill this gap in my knowldge.

Thanks

[fruitbat]

Originally Posted by Glider

This is often stated but I am not aware of any examples. Can I ask you to fill this gap in my knowldge.

Thanks

lol, this is one of crumpps 'facts', therefore don't expect to much backing it up in the near future.....

[Glider]

Its the Many that I am interested in. I know of one who believed that the 109 was as good given pilots of equal skill. So its the rest I am interested in.

[TomcatViP]

well guys maybe one day you should open a real book...those things can be highly informative from time to time

for example it is said often that the hurri turned inside the spit and not the contrary. How strange is that, humm ?

Secondly reading combat story from BOTH side will give you a hint of how fact were blurred and not bright clear as in your belief.

[fruitbat]

what like the books i have which have pilots talking about 100 octane fuel......

blah balah balah

[TomcatViP]

well more accurately said... the book with no "S".

this is quite a diff btw us. thank you for that

[fruitbat]

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

well more accurately said... the book with no "S".

this is quite a diff btw us. thank you for that

one of my favourite books from bob is 'spitfire on my tail' from the German point of view, can i not read it as it has an S in the title

[Glider]

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

well guys maybe one day you should open a real book...those things can be highly informative from time to time

for example it is said often that the hurri turned inside the spit and not the contrary. How strange is that, humm ?

Secondly reading combat story from BOTH side will give you a hint of how fact were blurred and not bright clear as in your belief.

If you could suggest a book that shows that the 109 could turn with a Spitfire that would also be appreciated.

[TomcatViP]

Originally Posted by Glider

If you could suggest a book that shows that the 109 could turn with a Spitfire that would also be appreciated.

well if you cld yourself suggest a book that shows tht the 109 cld not

"Blurred" did I say ?

[28_Condor]

I dont know many testimonies that 109 out-turn Sipits, but I know this one:

"The Bf 109s also had leading edge slats. When the 109 was flown, advertently or inadvertently, too slow, the slats shot forward out of the wing, sometimes with a loud bang which could be heard above the noise of the engine. Many times the slats coming out frightenened young pilots when they flew the Bf 109 for the first time in combat. One often flew near the stalling speed in combat, not only when flying straight and level but especially when turning and climbing. Sometimes the slats would suddenly fly out with a bang as if one had been hit, especially when one had throttled back to bank steeply. Indeed many fresh young pilots thought they were pulling very tight turns even when the slats were still closed against the wing. For us, the more experienced pilots, real manoeuvring only started when the slats were out. For this reason it is possible to find pilots from that period (1940) who will tell you that the Spitfire turned better than the Bf 109. That is not true. I myself had many dogfights with Spitfires and I could always out-turn them.
One had to enter the turn correctly, then open up the engine. It was a matter of feel. When one noticed the speed becoming critical - the aircraft vibrated - one had to ease up a bit, then pull back again, so that in plan the best turn would have looked like an egg or a horizontal ellipse rather than a circle. In this way one could out-turn the Spitfire - and I shot down six of them doing it. This advantage to the Bf 109 soon changed when improved Spitfires were delivered."
- Erwin Leykauf, German fighter pilot, 33 victories. Source: Messerschmitt Bf109 ja Saksan Sotatalous by Hannu Valtonen; Hurricane & Messerschmitt, Chaz Bowyer and Armand Van Ishoven.

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/...yths/#stalling

Anyway, what was easy for young pilots in Spits, delivery very good pilots (veterans) in Bfs....