Is the main issue with 1C the lack of communication? Feedback = Consideration for us?

[SG1_Lud]

Originally Posted by Mysticpuma

I have read many threads and although there are varying points of view, it seems that the main frustration is that veterans and new players alike just feel like they are not being listened to?

[...]

I hope I have written this as neither a fanboy or a whiner......just as an honest opinion that if we had more communication, it really would go a long way to make us believe we aren't being ignored and hung out to dry?

Cheers, MP

IMHO the main issue is that the new dev team are facing big problems with the code they inheritated. They are struggling to fix here and there, and in the process they break other things.

The secondary issue is that they don't tell us the truth. (Well they have, sort off. It is in an assorted collection of posts by B6 and by some members here who have enough time following the series).

I have faith in this team. They are the the ones that can make it.

I think they need all our help. Personally, I tried to help by allm means I have at reach: buying licenses for friends, helping with the bugtracker, and shutting up my mouth when I felt so angry I wanted to rant here.

I feel my part of the job is done and I wish they will do theirs.

S!


PD: Regarding the bugtracker,I am sure they are listening, and they already fixed or added things reported there. I am positive they will complete the list when they start to take out their hands of the sticky pastry.

[carguy_]

Originally Posted by SG1_Lud

I think they need all our help. Personally, I tried to help by allm means I have at reach: buying licenses for friends, helping with the bugtracker, and shutting up my mouth when I felt so angry I wanted to rant here.

I feel my part of the job is done and I wish they will do theirs.

S!

S!

That`s what is called help around here. No trolling and insulting needed. Cheers!

[ATAG_Doc]

The only thing about this that could be a problem is even hardcore IL2 people have limits. And they still get attracted to other types of games. Not that it matters to 1C. If you bought it and used the disk as a drink coaster that's great for them. But the community continuity suffers greatly. You have people that start other titles and get totally emerged and they're gone.

[SiThSpAwN]

Sure, but if I want to play a WWII sim what are my choices, now WoWP seems like an advanced version of Combat for Atari and while War Thunder seems like it will be closer to what we want, many wont like grinding xp for planes... at any rate, until there is some decent competition, this is what we have and to be honest, I logged on to ATAG Sunday morning and had a blast... or got blasted...

[jimbop]

To

Originally Posted by ATAG_Doc

The only thing about this that could be a problem is even hardcore IL2 people have limits. And they still get attracted to other types of games. Not that it matters to 1C...You have people that start other titles and get totally emerged and they're gone.

Exactly right. I have a quick look at each patch but there's nothing (yet) to pull me back. My *very* limited free time is better spent doing something that doesn't frustrate me. And frankly, CoD does frustrate me at the moment. I'd kind of like to be able to start my hurri, for instance. So it's mostly EVE online for me until 'the' patch arrives.

And if the usual crowd honestly think that the guaranteed purchases of the tiny remaining number of MG devotees will make BoM the financial success it desperately needs to be then they should think again. CoD needs to get working, fast.

Originally Posted by Mysticpuma

I have read many threads and although there are varying points of view, it seems that the main frustration is that veterans and new players alike just feel like they are not being listened to?

Many threads ask "Dear Luthier/Black6/1C, can you fix this? Why doesn't this work? I have found a bug? Online gaming? Multiplayer netcode? Why wont you answer this question? Why is the patch not here? Why have you not added this/that/the other?".....etc,etc.

Now as far as I am aware the complete opposite is evident from the RoF forums/community because they appear to have a group of developer's that interact with there community. Jason has been and is mentioned many times as someone the RoF community feel is taking onboard their suggestions and comments. It doesn't matter (well it does but go with me here) that things aren't fixed instantly, it does matter though that opinions, thoughts and suggestions appear to be given due consideration and there is feedback and appreciation of the customer enthusiasm and input.

I honestly believe that there would be considerably less irritation and hostility if the customers felt as though what they were saying was having an effect on the direction of bug-fixes and development.

I think in the real world (I know it's been over a year!) we can appreciate that software is never going to be released perfect. We also can appreciate that (from posts on here) that the release was 'forced' and this has ultimately have caused the community of CloD players to be dealt a rough hand.

I also think that most of us who have lived and breathed the original IL2 can see that CloD was 'born' prematurely as the pedigree that it comes from is second to none in the Flight Sim community (WW2 Combat of-course). For this reason I think so-many have been disappointed (I appreciate not all) as it was seen as the next step up in Graphics and realism for the WW2 Combat community. As it currently stands for many players (I appreciate again not all) the actual playability is really hard to accept as it takes so-many users 'fixes', tweaks, work-arounds to try and get a stable game that ultimately frustration sets in.

This is the point when they reach out to the people who made and sold the software to help them, to fix the broken parts, to make it as good as the original....to make it fun again!

This is also the point where it appears that the lack of feedback appears to be a two-finger salute at those who dare to poke their heads above the trenches and stare into the face of the developer's and ask a question about what went wrong.

Personally, I honestly do appreciate that a man/woman can't sit at a PC all-day answering inane questions that really don't make a difference to the development. I also appreciate that they can't sit there all-day and answer incredibly relevant questions to the development. I do though feel, like others, that the lack of communication feeds the animosity and anger because it is this that leads those who invested money to feel that the Developer's don't really care what problems there are....it's tough on us, what did we really hope to expect?

These are the reasons that the Friday updates (actually ANY updates) are trawled over in fine detail as we users hope to find a nugget of Gold amongst news of the sequel. The 'nugget of Gold' is the news that something will be fixed and that something is a direct result of customer input. The input and feedback of those who care about this software, it's sales, it's development, it's future!

The reason we are here is we have an interest, a passion, a hobby and that is why is galls us so much when suggestions to improve the experience we get from the software are just ignored.

Take bug-tracker for instance.

It would be great to hear feedback from the developers that they are working on/looking at the top-ten issues listed in bug-tracker. These are the TOP TEN issues for users and the top ten that surely the Developer's should consider first? These are the issues that users....the lifeblood of the Sim are crying out for to be fixed. If they weren't in the top 10 most popular issues, then there would be less importance on addressing them?

But those are the issues that lead the priority of the users in the community and these are the ones that really do require someone who is actually working in the development of the CloD software (not the sequel) to take time to come to the community and let us know what is actually being done and a 'realistic' timescale of when it could be fixed?

It really is disingenuous for a weekly update to say "we have nearly fixed this, we hope to release it soon" when they are actually dealing with the issues.

Could we not have something like this weekly or even every two-weeks?:

http://riseofflight.com/Blogs/

Trust me when I say that this is not a RoF thread, this is a thread I hope can stir a little passion in the Development team to understand that I (I hope we) realise it's difficult, realise there has been issues but that we are hear and waiting to support you as you battle through them.

Sitting in a room somewhere and saying if we don't answer any questions the baying crowd will eventually go away...well in a way, is probably true. But those who do go away most likely wont come back when you really do have something to say!

Please 1C, consider having worthwhile updates that tell us how development is going. I/(we?) really want to support you but throwing breadcumbs of information out at such sporadic intervals ultimately gives the impression that you really aren't interested in the community who support and follow you, and seriously that's' really not going to endear you to any of the older or newer customer's for CloD.

This took me 15-minutes to write....if you take into consideration how much I typed, just 50% of that as information of what you are doing once-per-week, would be a true inspiration to those who are steadily giving up hope of ever seeing CloD rise to the great heights the 1946 did.....but we still hang on in hope!

I hope I have written this as neither a fanboy or a whiner......just as an honest opinion that if we had more communication, it really would go a long way to make us believe we aren't being ignored and hung out to dry?

Cheers, MP

+1

[ATAG_Doc]

Originally Posted by jimbop

To

Exactly right. I have a quick look at each patch but there's nothing (yet) to pull me back. My *very* limited free time is better spent doing something that doesn't frustrate me. And frankly, CoD does frustrate me at the moment. I'd kind of like to be able to start my hurri, for instance. So it's mostly EVE online for me until 'the' patch arrives.

And if the usual crowd honestly think that the guaranteed purchases of the tiny remaining number of MG devotees will make BoM the financial success it desperately needs to be then they should think again. CoD needs to get working, fast.

Some guy (and credit goes to him for doing it) made a video on how he started the Hurricane.

Damn video was like 10 minutes long. It shouldn't be this way. You shouldn't have to do it.

I've been looking at that DayZ and I just logged into a server first time last night.

There was an update to it each day working on bugs. Not a blight update a real patch daily!

I'm not bashing them. I love this sim I really do. But I am starting to have doubts. B6 had been awesome and patient. I know its 1C and they have their hands tied and there is nothing he can do right now.

B6 if you read this we and not really angry at you. You just happen to be the guy sitting in that possition when frustration boils over.

But that's the nature of the job you hold. Don't take it personal. We love you man!

[SiThSpAwN]

I am sure they know the issues, and if I was a gambling man, which I am not, specially when it comes to flight sims, I would expect some sort of hotfix or updated beta this week or next to address the start up issues... but that is just a guess on my part...

[Madfish]

Originally Posted by Mysticpuma

I have read many threads and although there are varying points of view, it seems that the main frustration is that veterans and new players alike just feel like they are not being listened to?

Many threads ask "Dear Luthier/Black6/1C, can you fix this? Why doesn't this work? I have found a bug? Online gaming? Multiplayer netcode? Why wont you answer this question? Why is the patch not here? Why have you not added this/that/the other?".....etc,etc.

Now as far as I am aware the complete opposite is evident from the RoF forums/community because they appear to have a group of developer's that interact with there community. Jason has been and is mentioned many times as someone the RoF community feel is taking onboard their suggestions and comments. It doesn't matter (well it does but go with me here) that things aren't fixed instantly, it does matter though that opinions, thoughts and suggestions appear to be given due consideration and there is feedback and appreciation of the customer enthusiasm and input.

I honestly believe that there would be considerably less irritation and hostility if the customers felt as though what they were saying was having an effect on the direction of bug-fixes and development.

I think in the real world (I know it's been over a year!) we can appreciate that software is never going to be released perfect. We also can appreciate that (from posts on here) that the release was 'forced' and this has ultimately have caused the community of CloD players to be dealt a rough hand.

I also think that most of us who have lived and breathed the original IL2 can see that CloD was 'born' prematurely as the pedigree that it comes from is second to none in the Flight Sim community (WW2 Combat of-course). For this reason I think so-many have been disappointed (I appreciate not all) as it was seen as the next step up in Graphics and realism for the WW2 Combat community. As it currently stands for many players (I appreciate again not all) the actual playability is really hard to accept as it takes so-many users 'fixes', tweaks, work-arounds to try and get a stable game that ultimately frustration sets in.

This is the point when they reach out to the people who made and sold the software to help them, to fix the broken parts, to make it as good as the original....to make it fun again!

This is also the point where it appears that the lack of feedback appears to be a two-finger salute at those who dare to poke their heads above the trenches and stare into the face of the developer's and ask a question about what went wrong.

Personally, I honestly do appreciate that a man/woman can't sit at a PC all-day answering inane questions that really don't make a difference to the development. I also appreciate that they can't sit there all-day and answer incredibly relevant questions to the development. I do though feel, like others, that the lack of communication feeds the animosity and anger because it is this that leads those who invested money to feel that the Developer's don't really care what problems there are....it's tough on us, what did we really hope to expect?

These are the reasons that the Friday updates (actually ANY updates) are trawled over in fine detail as we users hope to find a nugget of Gold amongst news of the sequel. The 'nugget of Gold' is the news that something will be fixed and that something is a direct result of customer input. The input and feedback of those who care about this software, it's sales, it's development, it's future!

The reason we are here is we have an interest, a passion, a hobby and that is why is galls us so much when suggestions to improve the experience we get from the software are just ignored.

Take bug-tracker for instance.

It would be great to hear feedback from the developers that they are working on/looking at the top-ten issues listed in bug-tracker. These are the TOP TEN issues for users and the top ten that surely the Developer's should consider first? These are the issues that users....the lifeblood of the Sim are crying out for to be fixed. If they weren't in the top 10 most popular issues, then there would be less importance on addressing them?

But those are the issues that lead the priority of the users in the community and these are the ones that really do require someone who is actually working in the development of the CloD software (not the sequel) to take time to come to the community and let us know what is actually being done and a 'realistic' timescale of when it could be fixed?

It really is disingenuous for a weekly update to say "we have nearly fixed this, we hope to release it soon" when they are actually dealing with the issues.

Could we not have something like this weekly or even every two-weeks?:

http://riseofflight.com/Blogs/

Trust me when I say that this is not a RoF thread, this is a thread I hope can stir a little passion in the Development team to understand that I (I hope we) realise it's difficult, realise there has been issues but that we are hear and waiting to support you as you battle through them.

Sitting in a room somewhere and saying if we don't answer any questions the baying crowd will eventually go away...well in a way, is probably true. But those who do go away most likely wont come back when you really do have something to say!

Please 1C, consider having worthwhile updates that tell us how development is going. I/(we?) really want to support you but throwing breadcumbs of information out at such sporadic intervals ultimately gives the impression that you really aren't interested in the community who support and follow you, and seriously that's' really not going to endear you to any of the older or newer customer's for CloD.

This took me 15-minutes to write....if you take into consideration how much I typed, just 50% of that as information of what you are doing once-per-week, would be a true inspiration to those who are steadily giving up hope of ever seeing CloD rise to the great heights the 1946 did.....but we still hang on in hope!

I hope I have written this as neither a fanboy or a whiner......just as an honest opinion that if we had more communication, it really would go a long way to make us believe we aren't being ignored and hung out to dry?

Cheers, MP

Wow nice textwall. It appears you are a guy who loves to type and read stuff on forums... Personally I rather play the game. Writing text walls isn't going to fix ANYthing. And not everyone reads the forums anyways.

A bit of communication is fine - but what most people are expecting is just silly. It won't affect the game, it won't affect the bad advertising and crappy reviews - all it does is waste time.

If the developers need the fans to tell them how to make a game then it's dead anyways. Rthe weekly or bi-weekly news and let them develop.

[Mysticpuma]

"Wow nice textwall. It appears you are a guy who loves to type and read stuff on forums... Personally I rather play the game."

Dangle the worm, I'm not biting. Thanks Uther for unlocking the thread. It appears some people can't help themselves!

"More communication from the dev team seems pointless to me right now. I want them working on the game. I don't need them holding my hand while I wait."

Thanks David, a fair point. Cheers, MP