Soviet fighters and 4.12

[ElAurens]

Dogfights against the AI are no basis to judge FM changes on.

FMs take a lot of research. Currently I seen none in your posts.

FMs are not based on feelings or how any one pilot does against any other pilot or the AI in the game.

You cannot judge FMs but outcomes of dogfights.

If you are getting shot down by Russian planes when you fly the 109 or 190, then YOU are doing it wrong. Simply flying airplane X does not automatically guarantee that the enemy plane Y will fall out of the sky as if by magic.

Frankly I smell a lot of fear in this thread.

[gaunt1]

I fly mainly VVS fighters, La-5 variants most of the time. I dont fly 109 and 190 at all. Check Lerche's test report. That can be used for FM changes.

[gaunt1]

I did a little research, conclusion: The FM of the entire La-5 series is based on prototypes.

Performance - prototype; serial production; ingame

Source: Milos Vestsik - Jiri Vrany: Lavockin La-5 (MBI)

La-5:

Speed, (mil/Wep)
At sea level: 515; 509/535; 519/552
At 6500m:600; 580; 600 (at 6000m)

Climb to 5000m, minutes (prototype & serial production)
6; 5.7

Turn time, seconds:
25; 22.6; 19.8

La-5F:

Speed, (mil/Wep)
At sea level: 518/556; 514/551; 519/552
At 6500m:612; 590; 622 (at 6300m)

Climb to 5000m, minutes (prototype & serial production)
5.1; 6.1

Turn time, seconds:
18.5; 21; 20

La-5FN:

Speed, (mil/Wep)
At sea level: 562/595; 542/575-580*; 555/584
At 6500m:648; 620; 639 (at 6000m)

Climb to 5000m,minutes (prototype & serial production)
4.7; 5

Turn time, seconds:
18.5; 19.5; 18.5

* no data for wep in the book

[Treetop64]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

Dogfights against the AI are no basis to judge FM changes on.

FMs take a lot of research. Currently I seen none in your posts.

FMs are not based on feelings or how any one pilot does against any other pilot or the AI in the game.

You cannot judge FMs but outcomes of dogfights.

If you are getting shot down by Russian planes when you fly the 109 or 190, then YOU are doing it wrong. Simply flying airplane X does not automatically guarantee that the enemy plane Y will fall out of the sky as if by magic.

Frankly I smell a lot of fear in this thread.

It's easier for some to argue that something is wrong with the platform when things don't quite work out the way they expect, than to take the time and effort required to work out how to actually rectify the issue. This attitude is usually based on recalling firm numbers printed in a reference book, and simply "doing the math" - as many like to do here - with the published numbers of different types is supposed to serve as some sort of high-confidence simulation as to how combat is to play out between aircraft in a sterile environment.

There's nothing wrong with this, but it's of academic interests only. It's theory, nothing more. Beyond this point goes an appropriate saying: "That's Why They Run the Races".

A proper discussion of flight modelling and fluid dynamics for even the simplest airfoil - let alone an entire aircraft system and everything going on immediately around it - is a complex mathematical and physical discussion that is beyond the scope of this thread. It certainly requires more than merely citing turn times, time-to-climb, max dive speed, etc.

[fruitbat]

Charts, that what it needs. Oodles of charts

[Treetop64]

Originally Posted by fruitbat

Charts, that what it needs. Oodles of charts

Don't. Just don't.

[Mustang]

I never fly Russian planes, I fell like a cheater.
I dont care about russian planes, I saw this in La5 FN manual.
If you open the radiator you will loose 55 Kms/h

Then un FW 190 can maybe can out run you.

At a glance in the manual of LA 5 FN.... ignored for 10 years!

[1984]

Originally Posted by Mustang

I saw this in La5 FN manual.

If you open the radiator you will loose 55 Kms/h

in manual not "radiator", in manual "stvorki" and oil cooler...

2 things, not like in game...

and in real life FN pilots NOT open "stvorki" in fly, only if pilot wants to do this (no reasons in real fight and flight situations for stvorki FULL open, maybe for cooling engine sometimes), and was open only oil cooler, but only "по потоку", it means not full open, so - pilots and la-5 lose NOT 45-50 km/h...

i think, when oil cooler "по потоку" and stvorki open on 1/3 - this mean NO any problems with engine work (on forsazh too) - aircraft lose 20-25 km/h...

all this was reason why эталон 44 года= la-7 have new oil cooler - and stvorki...

and how i think, and read - 8. Влияние открытия заслонки маслорадиатора и боковых створок капота на максимальные скорости самолета, температуры масла и температуры головок цилиндров - la-7 lose with full open zaslonki and full open oil cooler only 9 km/h...

if this true, what we have in game?

[Faustnik]

Originally Posted by fruitbat

Charts, that what it needs. Oodles of charts

I have been working in this:

[gaunt1]

Climb rate now looks far better than the current one we have in IL2 compare! However, top speed at SL is still too much, the MBI book says its only 535 km/h. 551 is for La-5F. The data is from actual soviet test results. I include the page from the book.