Aircraft Videos and Images

[ElAurens]

+1 to that.

It deserves a better fate than to be cut up and sold for scrap in some bazaar in Cairo.

I had hoped the RAF would intervene. I know the US Navy considers all of it's crashed aircraft to still be the property of the USN.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

+1 to that.

It deserves a better fate than to be cut up and sold for scrap in some bazaar in Cairo.

I had hoped the RAF would intervene. I know the US Navy considers all of it's crashed aircraft to still be the property of the USN.

well it's a bit of a slippery slope. AFAIK there's been no disclosure on the exact location of the wreck, and the recovery of such delicate thing means a great deal of careful work and above all an adequate mean of transportation.

Then u have to deal with the local authorities and discuss the conditions of the removal. As for property, it's not that simple either: normally one needs to respect the legislation of the country the relic is found, you can't just go there and pick it up because it was your operational machine 60 years ago. If the wreck is in a country that you were fighting against that would technically be considered a war trophy, so you would have no rights over it. Normally governments don't make fuss over this stuff because it bears little or no importance to them, but rest assured that if it was a transport plane stacked with gold lingots and other valuable items there would be a mega row over it.

Whatever the case, it's obvious that the airplane as it is makes no worthy base for a flyable restoration (unlike the alleged Burma spits), and the historical value is far too important to receive a dramatic restoration. The P-40 is not a rare aircraft per se, what's rare and unique is having found one in such remarkable and complete conditions 70 years after it was lost. Those barbars should be slapped around the head for having removed the ammo boxes (when they could have simply removed the ammunition), but unfortunately we're not all aviation experts.

[mazex]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

there are a lot of rumours going on, but apparently there's a fair chance the RAF will get there and take it back to the UK, or so I was told by a close friend who works for the AF.

If you have more information from that source it would be interesting! Other forums have just like us speculated that it seems that the plane may be HS-B from 260 Squadron, maybe lost on a ferry flight... I have seen no "confirmation" about that anywhere though? Now the fact that it IS HS-B seems to be on many sites though. I want it from the RAF (or rather the RCAF if it's HS-B!).

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by mazex

If you have more information from that source it would be interesting! Other forums have just like us speculated that it seems that the plane may be HS-B from 260 Squadron, maybe lost on a ferry flight... I have seen no "confirmation" about that anywhere though? Now the fact that it IS HS-B seems to be on many sites though. I want it from the RAF (or rather the RCAF if it's HS-B!).

well I talked to my friend last weekend, it's the kinda person that tells you only what he can tell really, and what he said is that the RAF was definitely looking into a recovery, don't know much else for now.

As for the identity and speculation re. landing gear, I would say hold your horses fellas. Doing a landing gears down emergency landing on such a sandy/rocky surface is an easy way to get yourself killed: no sane pilot would ever do that, in fact I'd rather jump with a parachute than attempt an emergency landing.

That's the first thing that surprised me: why bothering doing an emergency landing when you can easily bail out? My conclusion is that the pilot must have been losing altitude and by the time he realised he had to abandon ship he was too low and the plane wouldn't gain altitude, so he tried to pancake it on the sand. The props show signs of rotation, so it means the engine was still running, albeit probably rough, when he touched the ground. The landing gear must have been up or in an unlocked position, there's no way you can put a taildragger down with gears out on the sand without flipping it.

Another thing, if the plane was part of a ferry flight (you never fly alone in over the desert, let alone if you're on a ferry flight with a damaged plane!), why didn't the rest of the flight pinpoint the location and radio the guy to wait there for a recovery? The LRP SAS would have been able to find the chap.

My guess is that somehow the fella got singled out and got lost.

It's always a bad idea to leave your aircraft when u land it in a remote area: the chances of surviving are higher if you stay in the same place and wait for someone to find you than venturing yourself out.

There was a similar discover in the 60s (although a bit grimmer), an S.79 was found by another oil scouting team, the rests of part of the crew still there. One of the members of crew was found some 150km away from the wreck, but still in the middle of the desert.

[mazex]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

well I talked to my friend last weekend, it's the kinda person that tells you only what he can tell really, and what he said is that the RAF was definitely looking into a recovery, don't know much else for now.

As for the identity and speculation re. landing gear, I would say hold your horses fellas. Doing a landing gears down emergency landing on such a sandy/rocky surface is an easy way to get yourself killed: no sane pilot would ever do that, in fact I'd rather jump with a parachute than attempt an emergency landing.

That's the first thing that surprised me: why bothering doing an emergency landing when you can easily bail out? My conclusion is that the pilot must have been losing altitude and by the time he realised he had to abandon ship he was too low and the plane wouldn't gain altitude, so he tried to pancake it on the sand. The props show signs of rotation, so it means the engine was still running, albeit probably rough, when he touched the ground. The landing gear must have been up or in an unlocked position, there's no way you can put a taildragger down with gears out on the sand without flipping it.

Another thing, if the plane was part of a ferry flight (you never fly alone in over the desert, let alone if you're on a ferry flight with a damaged plane!), why didn't the rest of the flight pinpoint the location and radio the guy to wait there for a recovery? The LRP SAS would have been able to find the chap.

My guess is that somehow the fella got singled out and got lost.

It's always a bad idea to leave your aircraft when u land it in a remote area: the chances of surviving are higher if you stay in the same place and wait for someone to find you than venturing yourself out.

There was a similar discover in the 60s (although a bit grimmer), an S.79 was found by another oil scouting team, the rests of part of the crew still there. One of the members of crew was found some 150km away from the wreck, but still in the middle of the desert.

But still, doing a gear up landing on with a P-40 in the desert should not tear the wheels out of their bays a few hundred meters from the plane? At the same time like you say it's madness to land with the gear down as it really should top the aircraft over? Maybe he was too low to bail out when he realized he was loosing power? Maybe he was really scared of using the silk? I've had a parachute on my back hundreds of times but never used it - if the plane is still in one piece it takes a tough decision to bail out, especially if you can't bring the reserve water tucked away somewhere in the plane with you?

Speculations...

But like you say, a solo ferry flight in a damaged plane sounds weird - but the diary note seems to indicate that it was the case for that AC with the damaged undercarriage... In the middle of war there are maybe weird decisions taken?

[ElAurens]

Too bad the painted serial numbers were sand blasted off over time.

And I'm surprised there are no pics of the builder's plate.

It's gotta be in there.

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

Too bad the painted serial numbers were sand blasted off over time.

And I'm surprised there are no pics of the builder's plate.

It's gotta be in there.

"On 28/6/42 ET574 Piloted by F/Sgt DCH Copping 785025 left 260 for a ferry flight to an RSU . The A/C flew with u/c locked down due to damage . An incorrect course was set and the A/C was thought to have crashed in the Desert due to fuel exhaustion." - Possibly?



HS-B 260 sqdn Canada, - apparently

http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNe...iscovered.aspx

[mazex]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

"On 28/6/42 ET574 Piloted by F/Sgt DCH Copping 785025 left 260 for a ferry flight to an RSU . The A/C flew with u/c locked down due to damage . An incorrect course was set and the A/C was thought to have crashed in the Desert due to fuel exhaustion." - Possibly?



HS-B 260 sqdn Canada, - apparently

http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNe...iscovered.aspx

Mmm - that really sounds like our plane! And the fact they flew with the undercarriage down for the ferry flight due to damage explains two things:

1. Why was there a wheel far from the AC at what should have been a belly landing? One of the photos show it far from the wreck. I though it was teared off anyway...

2. Why did a plane with what looks like battle damage (some shrapnel holes in the body indicate that) crash in a "non combat area"? It was on ferry to be repaired!

And sadly that means that the pilot F/Sgt DCH Copping died walking in the desert just as was the fear as the plane has not been found before... Rest in peace!

[JG52Uther]

Horrible way to go.

[mazex]

Originally Posted by JG52Uther

Horrible way to go.

It sure is. I actually had a hard time falling asleep yesterday thinking of the scenario. As a rookie pilot you get the mission to fly the squadron ace's plane that has been damaged to a repair and salvage unit (HS-B was one of the more famous kitty hawks in Sahara being flown by James F. "Eddie" Edwards, if not the most famous?) . You get lost and land in the middle of nowhere... In which direction do you start walking? As it is in the middle of the war you naturally realize that no one will start a search for a plane lost in the desert, and where to look? What a way to go... Those are the forgotten heroes of the war that don't get home like "Eddie" Edvards did to well earned fame and glory! He is still alive today so it would be interesting to hear if he remembers the details around that note in the squadron diary regarding what happened to "his plane".