Inaccurate performance data for BOB fighters in COD comparing to RL data

[NZtyphoon]

Going waaay back is this observation: (I've added some of the units which reported the use of 100 Octane.)

Originally Posted by TheGrunch

Cross-referencing references to +12lbs boost in combat reports with the dates that the squadron involved were stationed at certain airfields we can see that 100 octane fuel was available for certain at the following airfields from at least the following months:

RAF North Weald (11 Group) in February: 151 Sqn, 56 Sqn
RAF Drem (13 Group) in February: 111Sqn, 602 Sqn,
RAF Rochford (11 Group) in March:
RAF Digby (12 Group) in March: 611 Sqn
RAF Hawkinge (11 Group) in May: 610 Sqn (June)
RAF Hornchurch (11 Group) in May: 54 Sqn. 41 Sqn (July) 603 Sqn (August)
RAF Tangmere (11 Group) in May
RAF Duxford (12 Group) in May:19 Sqn
RAF Gravesend (11 Group) in June
RAF Catterick (12 Group) in June: 41 Sqn (August)
RAF Biggin Hill (11 Group) in July: 72 Sqn, 92 Sqn
RAF Kenley (11 Group) in August: 64 Sqn, 66 Sqn
RAF Northolt (11 Group) in August
RAF Westhampnett (11 Group) in August: 602 Sqn
RAF Middle Wallop (10 Group) in August: 234 Sqn, 609 Sqn
RAF Leconfield (12 Group) in August: 616 Sqn.
RAF Croydon (11 Group) in September: 222 Sqn
RAF Warmwell (10 Group) in September: 152 Sqn

18 Airbases - not Squadrons which have combat reports confirming the use of 100 Octane fuel between Feb - Sept 1940;

20 squadrons preliminary count - er- er - I though someone said only 16 Squadrons used 100 Octane, pending an "eventual change" meaning (say) 10 airbases - er - how do 20 Sqns go into 16? (Feel free to add other squadrons/airbases).

Why has someone not bothered mentioning Blenheims also using 100 Octane while, some time ago, acknowledging that Blenheims used 100 Octane fuel? Has this since been retracted, or just -conveniently - forgotten about?

Originally Posted by Crumpp

The meeting notes you posted seem to confirm that Bomber command was using 100 Octane in the Blenheim's.

More to the point why is it that more than a year later someone is still arguing over the number of Squadrons using 100 octane - apart from wasting time and sheer bloodymindeness?

[Crumpp]

18 Airbases

That does not mean every airplane on the field was using 100 octane.

You have 18 squadrons by that list by sometime in September.

You only have 16 squadrons thru August.....

You have 12 squadrons in July.....

10 Squadrons in June....

9 in May......

5 squadrons in March....

4 Squadrons in February....

Seems a much more realistic deployment schedule for operating the engines at 3 times their design capacity.

[Crumpp]

So you think the Merlin was designed to run at about 400 hp?

If that is what the engine produces at maximum continuous...YES.

Get a Spitfire Mk I POH and read the maximum continuous rating. That is the maximum power the engine is designed to safely and reliability produce.

Mixture control Normal = +4 1/2 lbs at 2600rpm

Why do you think the RAF called +12lbs "a definite overload condition"?

[fruitbat]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

That does not mean every airplane on the field was using 100 octane.

You have 18 squadrons by that list by sometime in September.

You only have 16 squadrons thru August.....

You have 12 squadrons in July.....

10 Squadrons in June....

9 in May......

5 squadrons in March....

4 Squadrons in February....

Seems a much more realistic deployment schedule for operating the engines at 3 times their design capacity.

Speculation on your part, without one shread of evidence, because its what you want to believe

[Crumpp]

Speculation on your part, without one shread of evidence, because its what you want to believe

No, actually I am just taking you guys at your word. He stated he cross referenced the logs with the time period and bases.

I just counted the squadrons by month and dropped the repeats....

[NZtyphoon]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

No, actually I am just taking you guys at your word. He stated he cross referenced the logs with the time period and bases.

I just counted the squadrons by month and dropped the repeats....

This is Priceless!

Name the 16 squadrons you claim were the only ones using 100 Octane fuel on operational trials - with documentary evidence please.

Explain how 16 squadrons managed to chew through 52,000 tons, that's 16,405,633 gallons of 100 Octane fuel while on operational trials - with documentary evidence please. In fact, considering that the "trials" started in February, explain how 16 squadrons chewed through about 74,000 tons, 23,346,748 gallons of 100 Octane fuel February - September 1940, with documentary evidence please.

Explain the logistical arrangements the RAF made to supply only 16 squadrons with 100 octane fuel, with documentary evidence please.

Prove that the Merlin was rated at 400hp with documentary evidence, thank you.

[lane]

NZtyphoon, add 65 squadron at Manston during August (when they were not at Hornchurch).

Post 372 demonstates that all the Hurricane units with the AASF and Air Component in France required 100 octane fuel and that 100 octane was held at the Aerodromes and depots.

Combat reports show that 11 Group Reinforcements in France also used 100 octane fuel.

From: Brian Cull, Bruce Lander and Heinrich Weiss, Twelve Days in May, (Grub Street, London, 1999), p. 309

"On 17 May the following Hurricane units were represented in France: 1, 3, 17, 32, 56, 73, 79, 85, 87, 111, 145, 151, 213, 229, 242, 245, 253, 501, 504, 601, 607, and 615 Squadrons."

Various Combat Reports from Hurricane units in France during May 1940 noting boost cut out used, +12 lbs, etc. signifying use of 100 octane fuel:

1 Squadron, 11 May 1940, F/O Paul Richey
3 Squadron, 14 May 1940, Sgt. R. C. Wilkinson
17 Squadron, 18 May 1940, F/O C. F. G. Adye
17 Squadron, 19 May 1940, F/O C. F. G. Adye
56 Squadron, 18 May 1940, P/O F. B. Sutton,
73 Squadron, 14 May 1940, F/O E. J. Kain
79 Squadron, 14 May 1940, P/O D. W. A. Stones
79 Squadron, 20 May 1940, Sgt. L.H.B. Pearce
85 Squadron, 10 May 1940, S/L J.O.W. Oliver,
87 Squadron, 15 May 1940, P/O R. P. Beamont
87 Squadron, 18 May 1940, F/Lt I. R. Gleed
87 Squadron, 19 May 1940, F/Lt I. R. Gleed
151 Sqquadron, 18 May 1940, S/L E. M. Donaldson
151 Squadron, 18 May 1940, P/O John Bushell
229 Squadron, 28 May 1940, Sgt. J. C. Harrison
229 Squadron, 29 May 1940, P/O C. M. Simpson
245 Squadron, 28 May 1940, P/O K. B. McGlashan

[Al Schlageter]

Lane, it doesn't matter how many squadrons are shown using 12lb boost, 100 octane fuel, the fact is there was only 16 squadrons that did so and that was in testing, there was never enough 100 octane fuel and the Merlin would blow itself to smithereens if more than 4.5lb of boost was used.

[Al Schlageter]

At least 28 squadrons using 12lb boost, 100 octane fuel before Sept 1940

By Month

No. 32 Squadron pre BoB H
No. 92 (East India) Squadron pre BoB S
No. 111 Squadron pre BoB H
No. 151 Squadron Feb 1940 H
No. 602 (City of Glasgow) Squadron pre BoB S
No. 609 (West Riding) Squadron pre BoB S

No. 1 (Cawnpore) Squadron May 1940 H
No. 3 Squadron May 1940 H
No. 17 Squadron May 1940 H
No. 19 Squadron May 1940 S
No. 54 Squadron May 1940 S
No. 74 Squadron May 1940 S
No. 56 (Punjab) Squadron May 1940 H
No. 73 Squadron May 1940 H
No. 79 (Madras Presidency) Squadron May 1940 H
No. 85 Squadron May 1940 H
No. 87 (United Provinces) Squadron May 1940 H
No. 229 Squadron May 1940 H

No. 43 (China-British) Squadron June 1940 H
No. 41 Squadron June 1940 S
No. 610 (County of Chester) Squadron June 1940 S
No. 611 (West Lancashire) Squadron June 1940 S

No. 145 Squadron July 1940 H

No. 64 Squadron 5 Aug 1940
No. 65 (East India) Squadron 12 Aug 1940 S
No. 234 (Madras Presidency) Squadron 18 Aug 1940 S
No. 603 (City of Edinburgh) Squadron 31 Aug 1940 S
No. 616 (South Yorkshire) Squadron 15 Aug 1940 S

Seems a much more realistic deployment schedule for operating the engines at 3 times their design capacity.

What!!! The Merlin had only a design capacity of 3-400hp. Unbelievable, truly. How ever did Rolls-Royce ever get over 1500hp from the Merlin 45M and 55M engines?