Oleg and Team.

[Feuerfalke]

Originally Posted by LEXX

Feuerfalke::

Members of private servers don't run around accusing each other of cheating like how you describe here. The anti-social behavior you depend on for your argument here is confined to, for example, ubi.com members playing anonymous public servers.

If you choose to fly with "cheaters" that's your choice. Now, there could be an issue for Newbies and their first time coming Online, before they find friends to fly with, people that they trust. But that is also like real life social interaction. The best things in life take time to accomplish.

I'm not talking about pay-for-play-servers and not about purely admins, but if I'd count how many times the word "cheater" was written over the last week on Warclouds, for example... And I only flew a few sorties!

Well, at least I'm very impressed you know all people personally for a long time, you meet on online servers. I'm playing IL2 online since it's original release and I can't say that for me, not even daring to say that I know what the game looks like on their monitors. Hats off to you, if you got that wisdom and knowledge - must have been a hard work.

[msalama]

If you choose to fly with "cheaters" that's your choice.

...which, OTOH, doesn't alter the fact of the overall online gaming situation having changed fundamentally w/ the crack anyway, cheaters abounding or not, because the psychological consequences of it are still there regardless of what may - or may not - really happen. Surely you understand this, Lexx?

[Feuerfalke]

Originally Posted by msalama

...which, OTOH, doesn't alter the fact of the overall online gaming situation having changed fundamentally w/ the crack anyway, cheaters abounding or not, because the psychological consequences of it are still there regardless of what may - or may not - really happen. Surely you understand this, Lexx?

+1

Very good posts, msalama.


As I posted before: Who cares if you "add content" to your offline game? But the pure fact that this modding is possible caused a lot of players to quit online playing (as it was allready posted on UBIZoo and here) and accusations of cheating and the overall attitude towards other players has changed dramatically since this crack was released and I have no doubt that it will sooner or later lead to the same effect we have in LOMAC: Only the hardcore fans still play online or people who don't care, whereas the later usually use mods themselves, to my experience.

[msalama]

Thank you Falke!

But all of a sudden it now seems that the Empire is indeed striking back after all See this thread over at SimHQ:

http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthread...gonew=1#UNREAD

[LEXX]

mslama::

You can't really compare SH3 and IL-2. The first one is primarily an offline game,...

IL-2/FB is primarily an Offline game in number of customer sales and financing of Oleg's business. Granted, Oleg's personal focus and hobby was primarily Online Dogfight fps shooter gaming which alone does not pay the bills without Pay-To-Play.

If you use mods online you get branded as a cheater, and if you use them offline you still have to suffer the godawful AI and other assorted limits of an ancient game engine....

The benefit of Online play is human vs human gameplay. When played Online, the sim becomes real life social interaction. We only get branded as a cheater if we play with anti-social and hostile behaving players, for example some members of ubi.com who frequent the anonymous public servers. The true Online play community is modding up their FB/PF in private servers as we poast.

[csThor]

Get off your high horse now and don't give me that cr@p about the "true online community", Lexx!

This elitist BS is one of the main reasons why I bother with posting my anti-modding opinion. I have a very low tolerance for arrogance and the snide attitude I see at AAA is IMO the primary reason why you guys are taking so much flak. You guys were a lot easier to get along with (read: easier to ignore) if you weren't behaving like some self-proclaimed cult leaders who claimed to have the holy grail in their hands.

[Feuerfalke]

The glorious days of hacker-groups, that managed to post their label in protected games and spreading them on schoolyards is long gone.

What you call "true Online play community" on anonymous servers, is neither the "true" community, whatever that should be, and it is most surely not anonymous; they're numerous, if at all.

But that's what we're talking about:
This is not about a group of fans flying purely offline campaigns in a Tigermoth, with visible explosions and smoketrails for well above 10km or billboards to make Icons visible over larger distances. I doubt anybody would even care. It's about those who use these mods to fly on "non-elitist" servers and you cannot say who is using what modifications.

[msalama]

It's about those who use these mods to fly on "non-elitist" servers and you cannot say who is using what modifications.

Exactly.

[msalama]

The true Online play community is modding up their FB/PF in private servers as we poast.

Well according to your opinion at least. Us mere mortals may disagree however, because tastes differ.

I did play w/ a closed crowd of participants in private servers for a while myself, and let me tell you, that grows rather boring after a while because you soon know the combatants and their capabilities pretty well. And the rest then tends to be the same old same old repeated ad infitum, whereas w/ the public matches what you used to get when the same rules still applied to all was a good mix of skilled and not-so-skilled combatants. So what you had was an element of surprise combined w/ lots of variety PLUS a known playing field, which is something we plain and simple cannot trust to have anymore w/ the crack out there. No?

Hell, pre-hack you at least _knew_ what to expect for the most part regardless of your personal opinions of some FMs or whatever, but now? Now these anti-social types you keep on mentioning have an excellent means of cheating at least if they're skilled enough, whereas previously you could just ignore them if you wanted. Ergo, the public online part - which used to be something the majority of us onliners preferred, at least to my understanding - is dead and buried now, and not because of the anti-social types out there, BUT BECAUSE of this game having been hacked. Easy and simple, no?

So yeah Lexx, twist this any way you want, but this I think is the jist of it still. And mind you, it doesn't really change anything even if the 'tards _don't_ actually cheat because the trust is just not there anymore...

Not a biggie, though, because this game is getting pretty long in the tooth anyway. But trying to obfuscate what's basically pretty straightforward doesn't really cut it either Lexx

And oh yeah, closed communities and offliners can of course do what they want, provided that they don't come and p*ss on my preferred online cornflakes. It's just that nowadays I've no way of knowing for sure if they actually do, unless it's very blatant - and that, my friend, is the point here.

S!

[Oktoberfest]

Originally Posted by Feuerfalke

I'm not talking about pay-for-play-servers and not about purely admins, but if I'd count how many times the word "cheater" was written over the last week on Warclouds, for example... And I only flew a few sorties!

Yeah, beware with the word cheater... Once I said that to a P47 that took a lot of 108s from my 110, rolled then behind me not even smoking, and shot me down...

Fact is it was another P47 that got me and that was Elanski.

But sometimes it's just easier to say that....