4.11 F4U Performance

[Whacker]

Hi friends, I know this is a bit of a "hairy" thread, but would like to throw my own 2 cents in here.

First off, I love the 4.11 patch and can't wait for Modact and HSFX to start supporting it. And a big thank you to Team D for continuing to to support their game, I bought every version and expansion at release and it's money well spent.

On topic, I think there is something slightly wonky about the F4U-1x's that bears investigation. I've been monkeying around with carrier takeoffs, both on the shorter CVEs and the bigger Essex CV's, and it's been a nightmare. I can't take off on the CVE to save my life, stationary or moving, ordinance or none. Fiddled with the missions a bit using the FMB and still no luck. I tried just about every suggestion in this thread that I could find but no joy.

I saw someone's comment about a book mentioning that "All US naval aircraft could take off fully loaded from a stationary aircraft carrier", so I started doing a bit of digging myself. I found this information here: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/f4u/f4u.html which appears to reference a number of official publishings from the manufacturers and military testing. It just says the -1 version and not which subvariant. Regardless, the data on take-off distances vs. fuel load is interesting. "Overload" which appears to be full fuel t/o dist with no wind is 660ish ft, 100 over the length of the Casablanca class CVE's in game. 15 kt headwind is pushing it, 25 kt is faster than the CVEs can go but adding headwind to make up for it can be done. I still couldn't take off with a combined 25 kt Wind Over Deck with full fuel as indicated by that source. With a 310ish ft t/o distance the F4U should pretty much leap off the deck, like we see in some of the Youtube videos posted.

As a few others point out, there are some interim solutions that can put a bandaid on this in the mean time, but I would submit to TD that this does bear some investigation.

[BadAim]

I haven't read all of the rest of this thread so I'm not sure what's going on with it, but I can say that I've never read anything about the F4U being used operationally from a CVE, and as far as I know it took the Brits to figure out how to fly the damn thing from a fleet carrier. I just don't see why anyone would expect the F4U to be useful from a CVE in IL2 if it wasn't used that way during the war. If I'm wrong I don't mind being corrected by someone who actually knows, as I'm no expert on the Pacific theater and I've only been studying it in any depth in the last couple of years.

Past any actual evidence, I'd expect a plane the size and wing loading (not to mention the nassty stall characteristics) of the Corsair to have trouble on anything the size of a CVE. That of course that doesn't mean anything.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by BadAim

I haven't read all of the rest of this thread so I'm not sure what's going on with it, but I can say that I've never read anything about the F4U being used operationally from a CVE, and as far as I know it took the Brits to figure out how to fly the damn thing from a fleet carrier. I just don't see why anyone would expect the F4U to be useful from a CVE in IL2 if it wasn't used that way during the war. If I'm wrong I don't mind being corrected by someone who actually knows, as I'm no expert on the Pacific theater and I've only been studying it in any depth in the last couple of years.

Past any actual evidence, I'd expect a plane the size and wing loading (not to mention the nassty stall characteristics) of the Corsair to have trouble on anything the size of a CVE. That of course that doesn't mean anything.

Interesting discussion we had on another thread (or maybe forum) about Corsair use on CVE's. There were some that did have Corsair use. The RN used Corsairs from both full sized and escort class carriers which I found fascinating. The CVE use was somewhat limited and I believe catapult launches were a requirement for full fuel/armament loads.

I can't find the references right now... but there are a couple of pictures we found in a Squadron Signal Corsair book and elsewhere on the net.

[BadAim]

It seems that the Brits are the pioneers as far as the Corsair is concerned. I certainly don't find it surprising that even they found the CVE troublesome. The F4U is a handful by any estimation, it seems to me that a lot of people are expecting these planes to be much easier to fly in the sim than they were in real life, but then again this is only my opinion and I could be wrong.

[BadAim]

On the other hand, most of us probably have more hours in this sim than any WWII pilot could ever dream of having in real life. Perhaps we should do better?

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by BadAim

On the other hand, most of us probably have more hours in this sim than any WWII pilot could ever dream of having in real life. Perhaps we should do better?

I think that's very much the truth. Aside from the not dying and the terror of it all... we also have the advantage of hindsight and so much more time to practice. The average USAAF pilot in 1941 had very little idea of what capabilities the Zero had. The first time I went against a Zero in a P-40 I knew exactly what the Zero's reputation was and how to defeat it.

Of course, not all pilots out there are also students of history... but some are!

[Whacker]

I'm not 100% sure about F4U's operating from CVEs during WWII, but I've seen a number of pictures of them on the end of the flight deck waiting for takeoff during the Korean War.