Patch 4.11 is a gift to open pit UFO fliers

[JimmyBlonde]

4.11 is certainly a gift to opinionated, verbose whiners with nothing to back up their accusations.

[Luno13]

I'm not a good fighter, compared to most online players, but the newest radiator settings are...not that hard to deal with.

If everyone else can do it, even someone like me...well, maybe the problem lies with you?

I really hope you don't call those gentlemen. You will probably give them a heart attack.

[WhistlinggDeath]

You could be right. I might suck at online dogfighting. Many say that.

[WhistlinggDeath]

Still checking on the various data posted by Ice and others.

Interesting data:

Seems the Ta can be caught now in level flight by the Spit 25lbs when both have rad open and boost 110% on (TA levels at 530/540 kph, Spit 25lbs at 550 kph)

Sorry, what... did I just write that. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

But so far, that is what I get in QMB on the Okinawa map.

Not sure yet, but seems the FW and TA dives are not as fast now (will check code maybe tomorrow).

P51, the monster of WWII that soared at 12000m escorting bombers and dove on opponents at 900 kph, can be caught in level flight by spit 25lbs and several other uber planes (P51 goes about 550/560 on 110% with boost, and Spit can now catch it, as can the well known 185 M-71 (two of these were made in WWII) at 580 kph).

Still testing.....

Who designed this patch anyway ?

[jermin]

Come on, TD. Do you really think an aircraft produced in 1939 (I-153P-M62) is able to give a late-war German piston fighter (Bf-109K-4 C3) a hard time in dogfight?

[Zorin]

Originally Posted by WhistlinggDeath

Still checking on the various data posted by Ice and others.

Interesting data:

Seems the Ta can be caught now in level flight by the Spit 25lbs when both have rad open and boost 110% on (TA levels at 530/540 kph, Spit 25lbs at 550 kph)

Sorry, what... did I just write that. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

But so far, that is what I get in QMB on the Okinawa map.

Not sure yet, but seems the FW and TA dives are not as fast now (will check code maybe tomorrow).

P51, the monster of WWII that soared at 12000m escorting bombers and dove on opponents at 900 kph, can be caught in level flight by spit 25lbs and several other uber planes (P51 goes about 550/560 on 110% with boost, and Spit can now catch it, as can the well known 185 M-71 (two of these were made in WWII) at 580 kph).

Still testing.....

Who designed this patch anyway ?

Good god... breath.

1. Okinawa is not the map to execute tests on.
2. You give no details on the conditions of your testing, like altitude, fuel lelvels etc. Therefor, they are not valid at all.
3. Learn to fly and accept that planes have optimum fighting altitudes. Your beloved TA-152H has never been a low alt turn fighter, for once.

[JG27_PapaFly]

Our squad did extensive internal matches in 4.11, specifically to get a feeling for the new overheat models + FMs. We did A LOT of spit9/8/9_25lbs vs FW series 2 vs 2 fights, switching planes afterwards.

None of us had the impression that the spits are uber concerning overheating.
To the contrary: being forced to turn hard to evade FW190 gun passes overheats spit engines real fast, while the 190s faired very well, as they kept their speed up. When keeping the spit engine close to overheat and pulling vertical to follow a FW zoom, we usually got the overheat message right away, which meant we could follow FWs during zooms only 1, maximum 2 times. With a hot engine, the spit driver now has to cut back on the throttle a lot, and give up altitude in order to maintain maneuvering speed.

In all game versions prior to 4.10, the spit25 was absolutely ridiculous: the engine got cooler when flying at full boost + WEP at slow speeds! I'm glad those times are gone.

Guys flying high as a team, supporting each other and managing their engines will blast any spit/la/185 out of the sky, and much faster than in previous patches.

WD, if you picture energy fighting as an endless succession of full power vertical climbs, followed by diving attacks, preferrably performed by a lone wolf who tries to dominate a server, it's time to change tactics. Any friggin engine will be cooked if run at full power and very slow speeds, and that is realistic.

All so-called tests presented in this thread so far are invalid. With random effects now being part of the overheat model, you must test each plane at least three times under the same conditions. Preferrably a steady max power climb at slow speed. After that, you calculate the average time to overheat, and then perform student's T-test on the obtained values. Only this or similar statistical tests of significance (like Mann-Whitney's U test) will tell you whether the average time to overheat of 2 planes are significantly different. Everything else is bollocks that wastes people's times.

There is one more point to consider: engine temps at spawn are well below what you can attain as a steady-state temp in-flight. Measuring time to overheat from spawn is not relevant to time to overheat as experienced during fights long after spawning. Plus we don't really know whether all planes spawn with the same oil/coolant/cylinder heat temp on a given map.

S!

[WhistlinggDeath]

Interesting info Papa, but I respectfully disagree. The TA in particular has been toasted and the FWs and Mustangs to a slightly lesser degree. And yes, any team (even relatively untrained members) can use five FWs to bring down one Spit 25lbs. I could use five Japanese float planes to do the same thing too. That is pretty much meaningless. And that is not a true test of metal. What counts is one versus one, same alt, ... no firing on first pass, then the fight is on. Try it and you will clearly see the deterioration of the engine in most BnZ centered planes with 4.11.

I think tomorrow, I am going to release a flight model for the TA 152 H1 in 4.11 that sets specs for it back to the 4.10.1 flight model. I will call this new model TA 4.10.1, but it will be made only for fully patched 4.11 versions of IL2. Then Ulti and I will demonstrate quite clearly for all who enjoy ntrks, just how badly it has been borked in 4.11. Whichever one of us flies the 4.10.1 model will beat the living s%%! out of the other one, and do so easily.

Once we test it and make some laughable NTRKs, we will release it to some select testers.

Another point many of you are not catching is that I (or we, my few buds) are not against overheating models or more realistic engine handling.

WE $%^&$%! LOVE THAT STUFF !

Heck, I wrote a guide about prop pitch at M4T to help out guys who got confused. We welcome more realistic engine flight models. We just dont think it is applied fairly as it stands in 4.11. The BnZ planes took it in the butt, and the TA got double teamed into the toilet, while the Spit 25lbs and 185 are very lightly affected. Also, from what I can read so far (and I have more to learn), the 4.11 TA or FW models arent holding up to the general consensus on real world planes. In real life, I keep seeing a figure of ten minutes for boost with the TA. It was designed to be a diving killer, .. not an overheating Ki-61 turd that exits out of the fight after pass one.

So Papa, do what I did. Take the TA 152 H1, get her up to 1000m in level flight at 530 kph and dont pressure the engine (take a bit to get up to full speed). Then take a small dive to translate a little KE and put on boost and power up to 110% and climb steeply (as if escaping a chasing spit 25lbs). By the time you reach your apex (after about 1870m of climb) and are close to complete stall, your engine will be in serious overheat.

In one pass.

Now try this in ole 4.10.1 and notice the extreme difference. The delta is large in 4.11 for the TA. Very large.

Now try this for say the Spit 25lbs. The difference between 4.11 and 4.10.1 is fairly small. A bit of overheat but nothing really kicks in for quite a bit.

Ponder on it a bit.

[jermin]

Originally Posted by JG27_PapaFly

Our squad did extensive internal matches in 4.11, specifically to get a feeling for the new overheat models + FMs. We did A LOT of spit9/8/9_25lbs vs FW series 2 vs 2 fights, switching planes afterwards.

None of us had the impression that the spits are uber concerning overheating.
To the contrary: being forced to turn hard to evade FW190 gun passes overheats spit engines real fast, while the 190s faired very well, as they kept their speed up. When keeping the spit engine close to overheat and pulling vertical to follow a FW zoom, we usually got the overheat message right away, which meant we could follow FWs during zooms only 1, maximum 2 times. With a hot engine, the spit driver now has to cut back on the throttle a lot, and give up altitude in order to maintain maneuvering speed.

In all game versions prior to 4.10, the spit25 was absolutely ridiculous: the engine got cooler when flying at full boost + WEP at slow speeds! I'm glad those times are gone.

Guys flying high as a team, supporting each other and managing their engines will blast any spit/la/185 out of the sky, and much faster than in previous patches.

WD, if you picture energy fighting as an endless succession of full power vertical climbs, followed by diving attacks, preferrably performed by a lone wolf who tries to dominate a server, it's time to change tactics. Any friggin engine will be cooked if run at full power and very slow speeds, and that is realistic.

All so-called tests presented in this thread so far are invalid. With random effects now being part of the overheat model, you must test each plane at least three times under the same conditions. Preferrably a steady max power climb at slow speed. After that, you calculate the average time to overheat, and then perform student's T-test on the obtained values. Only this or similar statistical tests of significance (like Mann-Whitney's U test) will tell you whether the average time to overheat of 2 planes are significantly different. Everything else is bollocks that wastes people's times.

There is one more point to consider: engine temps at spawn are well below what you can attain as a steady-state temp in-flight. Measuring time to overheat from spawn is not relevant to time to overheat as experienced during fights long after spawning. Plus we don't really know whether all planes spawn with the same oil/coolant/cylinder heat temp on a given map.

S!

Thanks for your input.

Flying as a team seems like a pro's suggestion. But please find me a decent populated stock 4.11m non-arcade server where teamwork can come into play.

What's more, we are talking about purely aircraft performance here. Please keep tactics and teamwork aside.

Although I haven't pointed out how many times I had run the same test, but since you have taken part in so many internal matches, did you find the randomness feature play a big part in overheating time? Or in other words, should it make such a big difference?

I did agree with you on your last argument though. But don't you think that MW-50 can only be used for 3 minutes before the engine is damaged is a bit too ridiculous?