Level bombing in the Blenheim

[Blackdog_kt]

Well, it certainly looks realistic. It is confusing for me too, having to fly the plane and aim the bombs at the same time, but i think having a human bombardier wouldn't do much to improve things. But, i think it's cool, let me explain.

Take into account the typical human reaction time of 1 second, add some milliseconds more for the voice comms transmission and you get the idea. You're flying in multiplayer, you have your buddy guiding you to the target like they did in real life ("left, left, right, steady" etc) while you take care of flying and you are still missing

But this is the whole reason they used formations and carpet bombing in the first place, or devised more sophisticated machinery to equip bombers with
You either fly with an autopilot through the bombsight (like the LW and US bombers did), or you have a guy in a glass nose passing instructions to you.

I think that might be one of the main reasons the RAF was traditionally bombing from lower altitudes. It's much easier to get accurate corrections if one guy does the whole thing, rather than two people who need to attune their reaction timings to each other.

I tried the mission posted by Dutch yesterday night (i was relieved i hadn't forgotten everything ), got into the air fine, engine management was a breeze and i even made a split-S evasion after dropping the eggs at +9 boost, skimming the waves back across the channel at a constant +4.5 boost, temps steady at 190-210 degrees and no engine trouble whatsoever. But i still missed the target by a couple hundred meters.

I came in at 5000 feet, aligned the best i could (read: paused and use ctrl-F2 to locate the target's exact location) and i still had to do a few last moment corrections, which threw off my aim. However, if i had a wingman on my 8 o'clock position, he would have hit squarely on those tanks

I'm not exactly disappointed here, i think it's awesome that we'll have to use just a dash of historical tactics and operational doctrines to be successful. I mean, these crates were not meant for lone-wolfing it like we do and it's good that the sim reflects the limitations if we do: either go low and risk the flak, or go high and risk a miss.
Plus i think i did really well for a first try after such a lengthy absence, didn't blow any engines and got a near miss, so i was all the more excited about the whole thing

I think the trick is to get a few people from the same timezone, get some practice in so that they can all hit within 500m of the target, then get flying in vics of three and go in at 5000ft or so.

By comparison, when i was testing the 111 i made an autopilot assisted run from an altitude of 3km (approx. 10000 feet). Comparing with last night's Blenheim test, i can say that the 111 hits as close as, if not closer than, the Blenheim but at double the altitude. Both of these tests are a "first run" test, i didn't practice before. So, technology does make a difference and if its lacking, different tactics have to be used

I really like the whole "low to medium altitude bombers" vibe and all the dangerous aura with the flak and all, that's why i like the Blenheim. However, i think that if the gyrocompass on the 88 is fixed to enable use of its autopilot i might switch to blue again, as i have a few nifty ideas for that one too: approach the target for a normal, level drop, if engaged by fighters use dive bombing instead and escape like a boss, otherwise stay high and level bomb


I think the only thing we need for the bombers in general (regardless of whether they have autopilots or not) is an "unstable level stabilizer": something that will keep the plane level like it did back in IL2, but not rock solid level, something that is not a gaming contraption/feature but a more refined solution. Imagine level stab, just not on rails like it used to be.

When you would engage it the plane would fly roughly level, still get shaken up by nearby flak explosions and (best part of all), you would use three keys for left/right/steady commands, with a bit of a built-in delay or "fuzziness" in the motion to simulate a human being doing the piloting.

This way we kill three birds with one stone

1) all bombers can now level bomb with relative ease without having to look for human crew members

2) we simulate a bombardier guiding the pilot to the target, like it used to be

3) the autopilot capable bombers with gyro-stabilized bombsights are still more accurate like they historically were, it's just that the non-AP bombers can also bomb with some ease in-game

[jimbop]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

I'm not exactly disappointed here, i think it's awesome that we'll have to use just a dash of historical tactics and operational doctrines to be successful. I mean, these crates were not meant for lone-wolfing it like we do and it's good that the sim reflects the limitations if we do: either go low and risk the flak, or go high and risk a miss.

Yes, this is the key. Maybe shouldn't expect to do single-bomber precision strikes from 10,000 feet since this was not what the Blenheim was used for (as far as I know).

I am undecided about the horizontal stabilizer. It is certainly possible to trim so you get very steady flight right now. The hardest thing (which a stabilizer would remove) is keeping one eye on the horizon and the other on the target.

My initial gripe with the absence of the horizontal stabilizer (i.e. that you were not expected to fly the plane at the same time) is somewhat lessened with the realisation that being able to make accurate corrections from the bombardier's position is actually a huge advantage. It would be interesting to see statistics of how accurate Blenheim bombing runs were IRL. I wouldn't be surprised if we were already more accurate.

I tend to lower my view on the way in so that the gap between the top of the screen and horizon is reduced. It allows easier estimation of divergence from true horizontal. If you click on the pic and look at the full size version of below you can see that the inactive alpha of my single-line high chat window provides a good point of reference at the level of the black pencil line at top left.

[JG53Frankyboy]

and the Blenheim was 'known' for its not very accurate bombing because of its bombbaydoor system. The weight of the bombs opened the doors, there was no manual dooropening before release possible. And this caused some kind of noncalculateable delay.

[kestrel79]

Wow some great info here. I got airborne for the first time in the Blenheim last night on the Cross Country quick mission.

Some noob notes:

Hard to turn while on ground. I had full rudder and trim to keep it straight down the runway.

I cooked one engine after lowering the cowl flaps to 50% for about 5 seconds...I had to fly with them full open all the time so keep the engines cool. Surely I was doing something wrong...I think it was me flying with a 80% fine prop pitch. Seems most of you guys fly coarse pitch, that is correct? I'll try that next time.

And also I probably didn't allow that much warmup time.

[ATAG_knuckles]

Kestrel: Welcome to the world of the Blenheim, its a tricky bugger for sure BUT with practice it can be a hoot.

Take off: crank in at least 1/2 left rudder trim (and leave it there for the whole flight unless you go about 6,000.00.

you will need full left rudder on take off roll until you get to about 70 mph then you will be able to gradually ease off.

To turn on the ground: you will need brake: push full rudder pedal in the direction you want and press the brake, that will give you a somewhat sharp turn.

Takeoff: Fine pitch and no more that 22 hundred rpm. lift off at 90-100mph. when established in a SHALLOW climb say 120-140 mpg go to full coarse pitch, leave it there until you land.

The ATAG forums has some great videos under the heading of "Planes,Planes,Planes

Go to the ATAG server in multiplayer: get on TS3 Comms: look me up, as I will be happy to fly with you to get you up to speed in the Blenheim.

Knuckles

[JG53Frankyboy]

Originally Posted by kestrel79

Wow some great info here. I got airborne for the first time in the Blenheim last night on the Cross Country quick mission.

Some noob notes:

Hard to turn while on ground. I had full rudder and trim to keep it straight down the runway.

I cooked one engine after lowering the cowl flaps to 50% for about 5 seconds...I had to fly with them full open all the time so keep the engines cool. Surely I was doing something wrong...I think it was me flying with a 80% fine prop pitch. Seems most of you guys fly coarse pitch, that is correct? I'll try that next time.

And also I probably didn't allow that much warmup time.

the CoD Blenheim propeller works as following:
0-5% is full coarse pitch
5- ~35% its a variable pitch
35-100% is full fine pitch

i use these 5-35 settings for climbing after the start. on mission, i fly full coarse.
when full coarse, throttle 65-70% throttle , the engine stays between 200 and 250 degrees with cooling flaps 1/4 or 1/3 open.

[kestrel79]

Thanks guys that's what my problem was, not flying full coarse pitch after takeoff. The engine sounds wayyy too quiest on course pitch, it didn't sound like I had any power. I guess I should look at the gauges more.

How do you guys set the compass? Is this something you have to do before takeoff every time? Mine is reading wrong...which explains why I was heading "south" and never saw the channel haha.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by kestrel79

How do you guys set the compass? Is this something you have to do before takeoff every time?

The course setter and gyro in all the RAF planes needs setting up prior to take-off.

1) Click the outer ring of the course setter (compass) and line up North with the 'T' shaped end of the compass needle.
2) Read off the heading straight ahead on the course setter (or run your mouse cursor over the compass to show heading).
3) Adjust directional Gyro to match this reading.
4) Now set course setter to the heading you require.
5) Take off and turn the aircraft so that the yellow bars are again parallel with the compass needle (check that North is still lined with 'T' shaped end of needle, not South!).
6) Check Gyro once the instruments have settled down. The Gyro needs to be reset periodically to match compass due to 'precession' being modelled, also any manoeuvres tend to send it out of sync.
7) If you use the map tools in the game, add 10 degrees to the geometric bearing to give a magnetic heading.

Here are a couple of links to help, although I made the mistake of saying 'Trust your Gyro' in the course setter vid, this should say 'Trust your Compass'!

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.co...ss-and-DI-gyro

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.co...for-Navigation

There's a vid clip I did at post #7

Hope this helps.