[REL] 4.11m Guide

[Fenrir]

Originally Posted by GF_Mastiff

Sounds still suck.

Way to go Mastiff. No, really. I mean, your motivational efforts are quite something.

Next time you say "what the hell's wrong with this planet?" take a long hard look in the mirror chum. Might find a clue there.

[Treetop64]

GF_Mastiff's comment = Buzz Kill.

I'm sorry, but attitudes like that just kill me.

Like a bitter relative that receives gifts on Christmas that has to look past all the goodness of those gifts just to find what's wrong with them, then tells other about it.

The default sounds aren't as bad as many here purport. Could they be improved? Certainly. A half-decent sound card with good software, and good headphones - or at least a 2.1 speaker system - goes a long way in making the default sounds quite good in most cases, though.

Be thankful for what we got, which, in the case of IL-2 and other similarly in-depth games and sims, is an awful lot.

[fruitbat]

Originally Posted by Treetop64

GF_Mastiff's comment = Buzz Kill.

I'm sorry, but attitudes like that just kill me.

Like a bitter relative that receives gifts on Christmas that has to look past all the goodness of those gifts just to find what's wrong with them, then tells other about it.

The default sounds aren't as bad as many here purport. Could they be improved? Certainly. A half-decent sound card with good software, and good headphones - or at least a 2.1 speaker system - goes a long way in making the default sounds quite good in most cases, though.

Be thankful for what we got, which, in the case of IL-2 and other similarly in-depth games and sims, is an awful lot.

Look, i've got a really good sound system, top end creative card, really nice 5.1 sound system, and yes it does make the default sounds better, and internally they are just about bearable, externally they are however awful, and if you make vids like i do sometimes, having only 6 different external sounds for all the planes is pretty 1999.

Don't misunderstand me, i am over the moon by what we're getting, but it is a fact that the sounds suck.

However, since on balance it is very unlikely that a mod activator won't appear for 4.11 at some point its moot, since i'll be able to mod the sounds anyway, and i think that TD have concentrated on more important things anyway.

[Qpassa]

One suggestion, could you help in the development of Clod?
Great job

[JG27_PapaFly]

TY Team Daidalos!

Does that mean that even the later spit models will eventually overheat? Sounds almost too good to be true.Those birds have always had the most physics-defying overheat model so far.

Looking forward to the AI changes, too. The dumb AI have prevented me from ever flying an offline campaign.

Is there a chance you guys might introduce following changes in 4.13?

1) Pilot fatigue as a realism option. IL2 models stick forces, so calculating the amount of physical work a pilot puts into his flying should be feasible. Also high-g conditions require contraction of all muscles in pilot's legs, buttocks and abdomen, which should further drain his energy stores.

2) Realistic behaviour of fletner trim tabs, especially in combination with ffb sticks. Those of you who own Condor (THE soaring sim) or are RL pilots know what i mean.

3) Strengthen the arrestor cables on all carriers. They should stop the planes MUCH faster. There's lots of real ww2 footage showing arestor cable behaviour.

S!

[pupo162]

Originally Posted by JG27_PapaFly

TY Team Daidalos!

Does that mean that even the later spit models will eventually overheat? Sounds almost too good to be true.Those birds have always had the most physics-defying overheat model so far.

Looking forward to the AI changes, too. The dumb AI have prevented me from ever flying an offline campaign.

Is there a chance you guys might introduce following changes in 4.13?

1) Pilot fatigue as a realism option. IL2 models stick forces, so calculating the amount of physical work a pilot puts into his flying should be feasible. Also high-g conditions require contraction of all muscles in pilot's legs, buttocks and abdomen, which should further drain his energy stores.

2) Realistic behaviour of fletner trim tabs, especially in combination with ffb sticks. Those of you who own Condor (THE soaring sim) or are RL pilots know what i mean.

3) Strengthen the arrestor cables on all carriers. They should stop the planes MUCH faster. There's lots of real ww2 footage showing arestor cable behaviour.

S!

regarding 1, that would be really hard to simulate, since it al ldepends a lot on the phisical condition of the pilot, and how one reacts to huigh g maneuvers, and flying overall. im agaisnt it.

aobut 2, are you telling me that condor actually has a realsitic trim behaviour? meaning that if im flying and i trim the plane the joysitck will compasate for the force accordingly?? WOW, i need to try that. thank you

[JG27_PapaFly]

Originally Posted by pupo162

regarding 1, that would be really hard to simulate, since it al ldepends a lot on the phisical condition of the pilot, and how one reacts to huigh g maneuvers, and flying overall. im agaisnt it.

aobut 2, are you telling me that condor actually has a realsitic trim behaviour? meaning that if im flying and i trim the plane the joysitck will compasate for the force accordingly?? WOW, i need to try that. thank you

As a cancer researcher I know quite a bit about systems biology and physiology and in fact a really simple model would offer amazingly realistic pilot fatigue behaviour. With THAT modeled IL2FB would kick the s**t out of CoD even more than it already does.

Regarding trim: the condor sim is on the mark, giving me exactly what i experience in the real cockpit.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by JG27_PapaFly

As a cancer researcher I know quite a bit about systems biology and physiology and in fact a really simple model would offer amazingly realistic pilot fatigue behaviour.

I'm not nearly so well-trained, but I've studied a lot about human physiology under stress and I agree that it would be reasonably easy to add factors such as fatigue and hypoxia to the game.

A very simple method of modeling fatigue loss would be a simple "Fatigue Points" score. Under stress, such as combat or high-g maneuvers, the pilot would lose points at a set rate. Likewise, he'd recover "Fatigue Points" at some other rate when he's not exercising hard or fighting for his life - basically, it's the human equivalent of engine heating and cooling.

If Fatigue Points go below a certain level, he can't do certain things, such as hold high G turns.

More technically, as the human body is stressed and lactic acid builds up in the muscles, muscle strength goes down. It's not exactly a exponential curve, but it comes pretty close.

Just compare typical leg press strength against forces exerted on the rudder pedal during a turn of X g's and divide by the exponential function to determine if the pilot can hold a turn of X g's. Pretty simple stuff to add to the sim; not much more complex than the "hit locations" and bleeding injuries which TD introduced with the 4.10 patch.

Likewise, it would be really easy to measure progressive hypoxia above 10k feet/3 km, or sudden hypoxia which occurs above 20k feet/12 km using simple functions. These factors have been extremely well studied.

[Avimimus]

You know - usually I only agree with the plucky enthusiasm of Xilon's posts, but the Ro 43 is kinda attractive. Of course, I'd prefer a Dornier 22...

[pupo162]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

I'm not nearly so well-trained, but I've studied a lot about human physiology under stress and I agree that it would be reasonably easy to add factors such as fatigue and hypoxia to the game.

A very simple method of modeling fatigue loss would be a simple "Fatigue Points" score. Under stress, such as combat or high-g maneuvers, the pilot would lose points at a set rate. Likewise, he'd recover "Fatigue Points" at some other rate when he's not exercising hard or fighting for his life - basically, it's the human equivalent of engine heating and cooling.

If Fatigue Points go below a certain level, he can't do certain things, such as hold high G turns.

More technically, as the human body is stressed and lactic acid builds up in the muscles, muscle strength goes down. It's not exactly a exponential curve, but it comes pretty close.

Just compare typical leg press strength against forces exerted on the rudder pedal during a turn of X g's and divide by the exponential function to determine if the pilot can hold a turn of X g's. Pretty simple stuff to add to the sim; not much more complex than the "hit locations" and bleeding injuries which TD introduced with the 4.10 patch.

Likewise, it would be really easy to measure progressive hypoxia above 10k feet/3 km, or sudden hypoxia which occurs above 20k feet/12 km using simple functions. These factors have been extremely well studied.

my opinion on this feature is pretty much the some off the one we got on Clod, regarding only having 2 hands.

for those who dont know COD has this feature were you can only do 2 things at the same time, as if you only had 2 hands. so , in a 109 its impossible to fly the plane (one hand for the stick) control throttle ( one hand at throttle) and trim the plane( third hand on trim).

The problem? its too counter intuitive. i used to have a g940, throttle on the big one and elevator trim on the small axis. so dispite the fact that i knew the rules of the game, in those heat moments in the middle of a dogfight where i did a trim set up and a power set up at the same time, suddenly my plane stopped working as i had tought it would, and htis was death.

My point, its hard to know what can or you cant do in every plane, especially in il2 1946 where you have a LOT of planes.

Stress is hard to measure. in my first days of flying this game i shaked my ass off ( literelly) when i had an enemy at my six. on my glory days, i was a cold blood killer, and used to watch tv while slaughtering my squadmates on internal campaign.

its ahrd to account for it. how do i know if im "stressed" in game? and why am i stressed? why am i tired? why do i know im tired?

simulation flying its tiresome on its own. after 5 mins of dogfight you are more prone to mistakes, you are more nervous, adrenaline is pumping, you have no fear of death, but in a campaign not playing for 1 hour is punishment enough.

about tired? i once flew a 3 hour patrol. for 3 hours i saw nothing. i was getting tired, the result was obvius. i wasnt checking my six, i was flying in a shamefull manner, and when i got into a dogfight i was so anxiusto kill that guy, i never toguht the stuff i usually think ( is he alone? whats is plane? cna i win? etc )... no i was so tired that i jumped right on him, lost lots of energy, did turn and burn with a plane with superior abilities.... but the other pilot was tired too, and i got the best of him.

other short story. regarding fatigue on simualtion vs real life. waths your patience to pick up a plane and fly around with it? and how aobut in real life? i did 1 hour flights in real life. obviosly we didnt sjhoot anithing down. we did some loopings barrel rolls and a split S from time to time. but flying virtully im bored in 10 mins of no action, speacilly if i know that there isnt going to be one. real life flying is far less tiresome.

So. my thougths about this is simple. how do you measure something like fatigue and stress without becoming counter intuitive?