The Crystal Ball

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES

Some people define 'beta' as software released with a 'bug' in it.. Which is not only un-reasonable but flat out silly! Because by that definition most if not all software is beta, because most if not all software has bugs in the initial release. With that said not only is CoD excluded from being called beta for that reason, but all software is excluded from being called beta for that reason.

Mhm...

A beta test is a limited release of a product with a goal of finding bugs before the final release. Software testing is often referred to by the terms "alpha" and "beta."

Generally speaking, the alpha test is an internal test to find bugs, and the beta test is an external test. During the alpha phase, the product is opened up to employees of the company and, sometimes, friends and family. During the beta phase, the product is opened up to a limited number of customers.

Sometimes, beta tests are referred to as "open" or "closed". A closed beta test has a limited number of spots open for testing, while an open beta has either an unlimited number of spots (i.e. anyone who wants to can participate) or a very large number of spots in cases where opening it up to everyone is impractical.

Beta is needed to find hidden bugs that developer can't easily find.
For example my RL job is to follow the develpment of an application for an industry:
1- Developing: I write the code.
2- Alpha state: I test the application myself.
3- Beta state: I give the application to a industry's guy. He do his tests.
4- Releasing: If the guy say it's OK then the application is released.

Alpha is different from Beta because the develper usually "think" as a developer. He test the application by his logic. Instead the Beta is used by the real customers and a lot of time the customers are "stupid" (logically speaking).. for example they press a key that they don't have to press until something is inserted; the developer is aware of this logic and misses the bug that is going to be found by the customer.

Then it's a problem about resource: the application has a exception that it's thrown if the number of users is over 30 (for example, related to CloD, the bug appear during a multiplayer mission). How can the developer be aware of that bug during the Alpha state?

A) If a software has some hidden bugs inside it does not mean that it's an Beta. It's a bugged sofware.

B) If the software has A LOT of hidden bugs then it's a Beta.

C) If the software has A LOT of hidden bugs and CLEAR and VISIBLE bugs then it's an Alpha.

To which section does CloD belong?

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

Mhm...

Note I said..

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES

Some people define 'beta' as software released with a 'bug' in it

Which is not to be confused with me saying that is the definition of 'beta'

To make it more clear I should have said..

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES

Some of the people here complaining about CoD define 'beta' as software released with a 'bug' in it

Better?

[icarus]

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

Beta is needed to find hidden bugs that the developer can't easily find.
For example my RL job is to follow the develpment of an application for an industry:
1- Developing: I write the code.
2- Alpha state: I test the application myself.
3- Beta state: I give the application to a industry's guy. He do his tests.
4- Releasing: If the guy say it's OK then the application is released.

Alpha is different from Beta because the develper usually "think" as a developer. He test the application by his logic. Instead the Beta is used by the real customers and a lot of time the customers are "stupid" (logically speaking).. for example they press a key that they don't have to press until something is inserted; the developer is aware of this logic and misses the bug that is going to be found by the customer.

Then it's a problem about resource: the application has a exception that it's thrown if the number of users is over 30 (for example, related to CloD, the bug appear during a multiplayer mission). How can the developer be aware of that bug during the Alpha state?

A) If a software has some hidden bugs inside it does not mean that it's an Beta. It's a bugged sofware.

B) If the software has A LOT of hidden bugs then it's a Beta.

C) If the software has A LOT of hidden bugs and CLEAR and VISIBLE bugs then it's an Alpha.

To which section does CloD belong?

No brainer: C

That is why this game is going to take a long, long time to fix.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by icarus

No brainer: C

That is why this game is going to take a long, long time to fix.

Really?

So if it is that crystal clear.. Than it should be a simple case for you to list all the CLEAR/VISABLE bugs.. Right?

With that said.. Can you provide a few examples of CLEAR/VISABLE bugs that IYHO would qualify calling CoD 'alpha'

Just so I can see it from your point of view in the hopes we can all be on the same sheet of music here

[icarus]

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES

Really?

So if it is that crystal clear.. Than it should be a simple case for you to list all the CLEAR/VISABLE bugs.. Right?

With that said.. Can you provide a few examples of CLEAR/VISABLE bugs that IYHO would qualify calling CoD 'alpha'

Just so I can see it from your point of view in the hopes we can all be on the same sheet of music here

Just for starters:

No functioning antialiasing alone is reason enough to call this software alpha quality. Terrible AI, rewriting the graphics engine and no DX 11 as promised also make this software alpha quality. It is promising alpha software, but that is all right now.

There are also too many bugs listed on this forum for me to bother to repeat.

Clear as crystal to me.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by icarus

No functioning antialiasing alone is reason enough to call this software alpha quality.

Well.. not based on Maus's definition of beta.. If I am reading Maus's definition correctly, to qualify as 'alpha' the 'bug' would have to be CLEARLY a bug.. That is to say it does not work as 'expected' by the programers logic..

Correct me if I am wrong, but that 'feature' was disabled by 1C prior to release, thus the programer disabled it, thus the programer would expect it to be disabled. Thus it is working per the programers loigc and thus not a bug

Originally Posted by icarus

Terrible AI,

No, that does not count as a bug.. Not only is this not CLEAR but it is very subjective! That is to say ask 10 people what they think about the AI in CoD and your likly to get 10 differnt ansiwers.. which is not CLEAR by any definition

Originally Posted by icarus

rewriting the graphics enginealso make this software alpha quality.

No, that does not count as a bug.. Because the developer decided to 'upgrade' something does not mean it is a bug

Originally Posted by icarus

and no DX 11 as promised

DX 11 was never advertised (aka promised).. Only DX11 API support was advertised and CoD dose make use of the DX11 API, so the is not a bug

Originally Posted by icarus

There are also too many bugs listed on this forum for me to bother to repeat.

As I half expected.. You could provide no CLEAR/VISABLE bugs

Originally Posted by icarus

Clear as crystal to me.

And many like you.. Problem is upon closer inspection it is more myth than fact

[icarus]

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES

Well.. not based on Maus's definition of beta.. If I am reading Maus's definition correctly, to qualify as 'alpha' the 'bug' would have to be CLEARLY a bug.. That is to say it does not work as 'expected' by the programers logic..

Correct me if I am wrong, but that 'feature' was disabled by 1C prior to release, thus the programer disabled it, thus the programer would expect it to be disabled. Thus it is working per the programers loigc and thus not a bug


No, that does not count as a bug.. Not only is this not CLEAR but it is very subjective! That is to say ask 10 people what they think about the AI in CoD and your likly to get 10 differnt ansiwers.. which is not CLEAR by any definition


No, that does not count as a bug.. Because the developer decided to 'upgrade' something does not mean it is a bug


DX 11 was never advertised (aka promised).. Only DX11 API support was advertised and CoD dose make use of the DX11 API, so the is not a bug


As I half expected.. You could provide no CLEAR/VISABLE bugs


And many like you.. Problem is upon closer inspection it is more myth than fact

Whatever.
As with many like you, you can't tell the truth about the shortcomings of this sim without lame protectionist arguments to hide the problems. Perhaps I should calibrate my monitor LOL. Oh and BTW, Ubisoft is still advertising DX11. http://il2sturmovik.ubi.com/cliffs-o.../key-features/ LOL.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by icarus

Whatever.
As with many like you, you can't tell the truth about the shortcomings of this sim without lame protectionist arguments to hide the problems.

As expected.. You can not provide '1' example of which you claim to be CLEAR and plentiful.. Which says a lot about your argument! As for you trying to take the focus off of that FACT your now trying to put words in my mouth as to what I consider to be short coming? Please! I have plenty of issues with CoD, but mine are based in reality not myths

Originally Posted by icarus

Perhaps I should calibrate my monitor LOL.

Something.. because you falling prey to myths that are upsetting you for no real reason

Originally Posted by icarus

Oh and BTW, Ubisoft is still advertising DX11 support. LOL.

Actually that is another myth that you have fallen prey too.. No where does UBI or 1C advertise DX11 support, they advertise DX11 API support which is very different

[nearmiss]

If a software is Beta, Alpha or Release code it is pretty well known there are still possible issues you will have using it.

[Chivas]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

If a software is Beta, Alpha or Release code it is pretty well known there are still possible issues you will have using it.

Very true. Personally I don't care what they call it, but its definitely unfinished. Even if its considered finished in the next year or so it will still be upgraded and refined for atleast another ten years.