Fantastic FW 190 video

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

Yeah, we've been there and I think it just goes in circles now anyways. Saying a Merlin and a DB605 sounds the same...dunno what to make of that. Makes me wonder if you ever visited an airshow.

wait a second, I haven't said that lol and believe me, I've been to a fair amount of airshows in my life, on both sides of the fence

And the heck, hearing a Jumo in flight would be a first in two generations, and you say an Allision does as fine? And if it does not matter to you, then why this focus on correct restaurations? I simply lost you between this and your crime accusations.
Then again this topic seriously is not important enough to put so much energy into it. I think we have a very different understanding what defines value, or how it is expressed.

in terms of making the thing flying there's not much difference, apart for the fact that the Allison is probably more dependable and cheaper to run, but of course, a Jumo would sound very differently, as I mentioned before the whine of the turbine would be quite distinctive, as it is for the DB605. I tell you this: if they wanted to they could install a turbine fan and use it just like the sirens on stukas, and remake a sound very near to the Jumo. What you don't get though is that very few warbird operators are so anal about this kinda stuff. An example: there's an ever growing number of Mustangs that "whistle" now, the cause being the airflow hitting the gun ports and literally working like a whistle. This typical sound became somehow fashionable (probably because of Saving Private Ryan), but it wasn't something you would hear all the time, because gun ports were normally taped to avoid icing, it actually became a distinctive sound for crew chiefs, cos when they heard a Mustang whistling it meant that the pilot had seen some action and shot his guns.

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

Even though Mr. Allen is loaded, why would he spend more of HIS money to put that thing in the air and risk losing it? Every plane, regardless of numbers produced, has a cost associated with flying it, and the rarer the plane, and its parts, the higher that cost becomes.

I'd imagine though, if you were to purchase said plane from him, you could restore it to the point where you would be comfortable flying it. Otherwise we are in no position to make judgements on other people's financial constraints.

Read the thread, Cheesehawk. You are absolutely right that money here is the deciding factor and that restauration only makes sense if readily available. That is something I conceded a long time ago already.

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

wait a second, I haven't said that lol and believe me, I've been to a fair amount of airshows in my life, on both sides of the fence



in terms of making the thing flying there's not much difference, apart for the fact that the Allison is probably more dependable and cheaper to run, but of course, a Jumo would sound very differently, as I mentioned before the whine of the turbine would be quite distinctive, as it is for the DB605. I tell you this: if they wanted to they could install a turbine fan and use it just like the sirens on stukas, and remake a sound very near to the Jumo. What you don't get though is that very few warbird operators are so anal about this kinda stuff. An example: there's an ever growing number of Mustangs that "whistle" now, the cause being the airflow hitting the gun ports and literally working like a whistle. This typical sound became somehow fashionable (probably because of Saving Private Ryan), but it wasn't something you would hear all the time, because gun ports were normally taped to avoid icing, it actually became a distinctive sound for crew chiefs, cos when they heard a Mustang whistling it meant that the pilot had seen some action and shot his guns.

What are you suggesting with this post? Just to get that right, we should install sound machines in these replicas to make them sound closer to the original?

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

Even though Mr. Allen is loaded, why would he spend more of HIS money to put that thing in the air and risk losing it? Every plane, regardless of numbers produced, has a cost associated with flying it, and the rarer the plane, and its parts, the higher that cost becomes.

I think it's more of a case that they feel confident to fly it, but insurances say "hahaha! You funny fu***r!". They're going themselves along the lines of "this is too much of a precious machine because it's original and complete to think about flying it". They know it's original, but it's not perfect, the main issue standing with reliability of the engine (and probably the fact that they still don't have a kommandgerat for it).

I'd imagine though, if you were to purchase said plane from him, you could restore it to the point where you would be comfortable flying it. Otherwise we are in no position to make judgements on other people's financial constraints.

You could, but then you would have to drastically modify an original machine for the sake of airworthiness. They specifically kept original components like circuit breakers and avionics installed, to preserve its original value, and considering how much electrics are in that thing, I wouldn't be too comfortable to fly something that old where pretty much everything is controlled electrically..

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by swiss

I would, if possible, strip the block from all internals(you can use those original parts for resto of other engines with the purpose of static display or demo runs) and rebuild to modern specs - remanufacture the parts from modern materials.
Titanium sleeves, ceramic bearings, hey - whatever it takes. That beast would still sound the same I guess and nothing else matters.
(You probably would end up with a few extra hp too, that means you could fly it with even less throttle -> increased TBO)

Unfortunately that's sci-fi at the moment

Remaking such components on a single stock with such materials is stuff that not even a Formula 1 team can afford.. as that is not enough, the components are so over-engineered that if you damaged the crankshaft, it would take a lot of time, money and efforts to remake one, simply cos we don't have those tools anymore.

Merlin engines can benefit of a plethora of spare parts, both from old stocks and brand new, because there's a market for them, but who would be able to measure, machine and certificate a piston for a Jumo on a budget?

Again, (a lot of) money can do the trick, but good luck in finding an investor that would spend so much on a piece that the average people considers Nazi memorabilia..

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

What are you suggesting with this post? Just to get that right, we should install sound machines in these replicas to make them sound closer to the original?

it could be an idea, why not? They use compressed air machine guns to remake the sounds of guns, I don't see why they couldn't do the same with the engines, a bit like putting a playing card on your bicycle spokes to make it sound cooler

[drewpee]

Playing cards on your bicycle spokes, man now that is cool. When I was a kid, I shot down many bad guys with my bike set up like that.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by drewpee

Playing cards on your bicycle spokes, man now that is cool. When I was a kid, I shot down many bad guys with my bike set up like that.

that is the same buzzing sound of a rotary engine at a distance

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

that is the same buzzing sound of a rotary engine at a distance

I seeee........ Well, should I ever see you in something sounding cool, I know what to expect

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

I seeee........ Well, should I ever see you in something sounding cool, I know what to expect

DAKADAKADAKADAKADAKA!!!