IL2 and Sound Modding

[Jaws2002]

Originally Posted by LEXX

I understand social behavior, and can see how Online play becomes "real life" and no longer just a simulation, and gives Online play it's greatest advantage, as well as potentially it's greatest weakness, entirely depending on who we choose to associate with.

Many Online players do understand Online play. As one honest Online player poasted at simhq about two years ago...

You see I appreciate our offline community. They are the ones doing great missions, great campaigns and maybe put more money into Oleg's pocket then the online guys. I greatly appreciate them and have nothing against them or against how they decide to enjoy the sim. My post above was not against the offline community. Was only a remark to your post. Honestly you are constantly trying to tell us who to play with and how.
You don't play online so you don't really know why we play the way we do for the last five years, and what made this game so special.
I like to play with as many people from this community. I'd rather treat all players as honest and have to change my opinion of few of them along the way, then treating all but a handful of my friends as cheaters.

That's the only difference in the way i see online play in this game and the way you tell us to play.
If it was for me I'd rather pay per play and have a company take care of the server and bad apples. But it would have to be a much bigger server. Just like in Aces high or WW2OL.

[Jaws2002]

Ah btw. Online play doesn't become "real life" is just the same simulation enjoyed with friends over a couple of drinks.

[LEXX]

Thanks Jaws. You are saying EXACTLY what I am thinking too. I had to dragg it out of ya.

There is an alternative that does not require massive Pay-To-Play through the publisher, and which appears to be Oleg's plan for BoB And Beyond...

Oleg's Plan:
(1) Modding for Offline play and mod-friendly Online servers.
(2) No Modding for no-mod Online servers.

This is "sharing" the sim for the benefit of all. This will hopefully prove sufficient to grow and maintain a huge interested Offline base that can pay for effective anti-cheat protections without requiring Pay-To-Play.

You see, if Oleg *really* went Pay-To-Play whole hogg, and made a smashing success of it, he just might abandon Offline play development, as like the purely Online gameplay TargetWare developers, Oleg is not personally interested in Offline play development, at least to my knowledge.

[LEXX]

~hi~ strewth

strewth::

Lexx,

I have been sitting here experiencing you blow nothing but wind out your rear end.
:
:
:

~by~ strewth

[Razer]

Ok. Well, true this is my first post here, BUT:

I've been watching this debate for weeks now, and its just gotten too much for me NOT to stick my nose in.

Ok, yes the both sides have a lot of VERY valid points - alot of which cannot really be argued. HOWEVER, I dont see the point in the constant bickering between everyone here.

Come on, its not rocket science to figure out that if anything is going to kill this wonderful sim, its the arguing, the name calling, and the constant b!tch fights.

I havent tried the mods myself, personally... not for any reason in particular...

I have to agree with the logic, however, about the... unfortunate way they came about... With the legalities of it... However...

You'll have to have your head in the sand NOT to see that these are things people have been asking for for ages.

As for the 'cheating' possibilities... Well, the AAA forum DOES seem to be very anti-cheat. And from what I can see, thats the place where the majority of these mods are available (might be wrong, but no more than 90% of everybody that posts here). Not only that, but there's been ways of cheating out there, longer than the mods have been. Yes it might make it easier... but: WHAT does one stand to achieve. If anything they're only destroying their OWN experience. All you need to do is respawn and report them (valla-bing and they're banned).

Now, surely, we can stop acting like children, and behave like adults, and agree to disagree. Stop the name calling, the moaning, the accusations... and just leave and let live. Leave the "Us" and "Them" mentalities some of you are forming...

Instead of mearly continuing the last 100-odd pages of complete and utter garbage - why dont we instead, as I said above, put this behind us - as a community - and focus on a way we can RE-secure the game. Like others have suggested, yes maybe third party is the way to go. Yes maybe this would be the only option. It may seem a bit, ancient... but we seem to have no other choice.

No doubt, following the trend of these threads, someone a tad too stubborn to see this furball for what it is (pointless/fruitless/immature), will quote me - and pull apart my message... but even then - just think about it.

Well...?

[-Ox-]

Originally Posted by Razer

Ok. Well, true this is my first post here, BUT:

I've been watching this debate for weeks now, and its just gotten too much for me NOT to stick my nose in.

Ok, yes the both sides have a lot of VERY valid points - alot of which cannot really be argued. HOWEVER, I dont see the point in the constant bickering between everyone here.

Come on, its not rocket science to figure out that if anything is going to kill this wonderful sim, its the arguing, the name calling, and the constant b!tch fights.

I havent tried the mods myself, personally... not for any reason in particular...

I have to agree with the logic, however, about the... unfortunate way they came about... With the legalities of it... However...

You'll have to have your head in the sand NOT to see that these are things people have been asking for for ages.

As for the 'cheating' possibilities... Well, the AAA forum DOES seem to be very anti-cheat. And from what I can see, thats the place where the majority of these mods are available (might be wrong, but no more than 90% of everybody that posts here). Not only that, but there's been ways of cheating out there, longer than the mods have been. Yes it might make it easier... but: WHAT does one stand to achieve. If anything they're only destroying their OWN experience. All you need to do is respawn and report them (valla-bing and they're banned).

Now, surely, we can stop acting like children, and behave like adults, and agree to disagree. Stop the name calling, the moaning, the accusations... and just leave and let live. Leave the "Us" and "Them" mentalities some of you are forming...

Instead of mearly continuing the last 100-odd pages of complete and utter garbage - why dont we instead, as I said above, put this behind us - as a community - and focus on a way we can RE-secure the game. Like others have suggested, yes maybe third party is the way to go. Yes maybe this would be the only option. It may seem a bit, ancient... but we seem to have no other choice.

No doubt, following the trend of these threads, someone a tad too stubborn to see this furball for what it is (pointless/fruitless/immature), will quote me - and pull apart my message... but even then - just think about it.

Well...?

so true. This thread needs to be locked already, can't believe it got up to 108 pages already.

[strewth]

Originally Posted by LEXX

~hi~ strewth

strewth::

~by~ strewth

WOW!

And yet that is probably the most understandable thing you have said to date.

Congrats. You are improving mate.

[jasonbirder]

3) Online part of the community is upset.
4) Offline part of the community is excited.
5) Online part of the community is mad on offline part for being excited...

Don't forget
6)Online part of the community lets off steam by calling Offline Part of the Community..Hackers, Cheaters, Losers, Pirates, Theives, Stealers, vandals etc
7) Offline Part of the Community gets mad at the Online Part of the Community for being called all the names under the sun for no real reason other than Onliners are upset about the threat to Online Gameplay

[jasonbirder]

Are you for real? Seriously man, you seem to produce the most amazing amount of non-sensicle drivel in order to attempt to validate a blatant HACK! The original analogy was reasonable, except that I don't think the keys were left in the car. I think some lowlife stole them or just plain broke in. You DO NOT OWN THE CODE! You PURCHASED A LICENCE AND A LOCKED CODE THAT YOU AGREED TO UPON LOADING! If you lease or rent a car, you may over time pay more than the worth of that car. This does not mean that the car is yours to keep. In my own honest personal opinion, you now strike me as being an absolute idiot that randomly rants and raves about only semi related incidents by a somebody/nobody that made a statement somewhere else.

I think the anology would be a little closer if you described it like this...You got to a car Showroom..Pay full price for a car you believe you are buying...the salesman never mentions to you that you are leasing the car, you drive the car home...on reaching for the service manual you notice a small slip of paper that tells you you are only leasing the car...after you have parted with your money...
Do you think you would have a case in court to show you'd be conned...damn straight you would!
Thats why so called "shrink wrap agreements" have been shown not to be enforcable...you don't get the agreement until after you have purchased the product.
You buy the software in good faith...only after parting with the money are you told its not actually yours to do with as you please...
They are called "coercive contracts" as they rely on an asymmetry of information...the vendor holds all the cards and you the purchaser are at a disadvantage.

Answer these questions honestly if you can:

1. Was the game purchased with a locked code?

2. Was the code HACKED (by whoever and whenever doesn't matter at this stage)?

3. Was there any official "nod" for this code to be hacked?

4. Do you support the code hackers / mods / whatever you choose to call them?

5. Would you still be so blaze` and proud to stand up for them in a court of law?

There is no such thing as "locked" code, there is software...and there is software...1C wrote part of the game files in a particular proprietry format..what that format is has absolutely no legal bearing on anything...it could have been written in swahilli and it wouldn't matter...

When you say "Hacked" you actually mean...modified by legitimate purchasers of the game to improve their own gameplay experience...

Why would there need to be an "official" nod? Every single Flight Simulator, no wait...let me not narrow it down every single flight, combat, naval, racing etc etc simulator has been modified by its community...

Yes I support the efforts of legitimate users who are trying to improve the gameplay experience for people...in exactly the same way as I applaud the hard work of skinners...campaign writers, utility developers etc etc...whats the difference?

In court! Don't make me laugh..not only has nothing illegal been done, but what software publisher would want to be seen taking their customers to court for modifying their software for their own personnel use? Thats just a joke!