Little OT: World of Planes

[Robotic Pope]

Originally Posted by Madfish

Your post is probably the most childish and bashing in the entire thread.

Also I fail to follow your logic there. Why do you assume an eventually more shallow copy of a flight sim creates interest for other games in that genre?
I wish it were true but it's not and I'd ask you to provide some insight into that wisdom of yours and also eventually some numbers.
If it were true we would have no issues with this genre at all. See Altitude, Dog Fighter, Hammerfight, Wings of Prey, H.A.W.X., Battlefield 2, Bad Company 2, Call of Duty etc.

Also I wouldn't exactly call it fear. What I was saying is sadly nothing but the truth and if you ask professionals in the industry you'll quickly come to realize that the "free to play" business is the most profitable segment of the gaming industry currently with companies offering f2p games often outperforming direct sale or subscription competitors in the same genre by the factor 2 to 5.

But then again, this is also directly the reason why I said this forum here is probably not the place to advertise this direct competitor. I find it generally disturbing but obviously others will obviously give an opinion - either liking or disliking the title.

Madfish you are acting like a childish fanboy. What addman has said is the truth and you have people here telling you that they are the proof that you are wrong. Please grow up.

[Madfish]

Originally Posted by Robotic Pope

Madfish you are acting like a childish fanboy. What addman has said is the truth and you have people here telling you that they are the proof that you are wrong. Please grow up.

Yes I will daddy. Please tell me when I'm old enough to be allowed to post my opinion.

All fun aside, and I hope you were joking - calling me a fanboy would be... extremely odd.
I can guarantee you there is a great chance that I have more of these "casual" flight games than you or most of the people in this thread. At least I own all of those I listed above as examples (and many, many others, but whatever).
I'm not against casual games at all and I'm certainly not a fanboy of this game just because I feel it's worth pointing out the oddness of advertising an eventually direct competitor here. 90% of the time I play co-op titles these days, no matter what genre.

But thanks for contributing so maturely.

@addman
Instead of insulting me again, and yes, your post was the one that started the bashing... could you just read and actually discuss instead? I haven't seen you answering my question for example:

Also I fail to follow your logic there. Why do you assume an eventually more shallow copy of a flight sim creates interest for other games in that genre?
I wish it were true but it's not and I'd ask you to provide some insight into that wisdom of yours and also eventually some numbers.
If it were true we would have no issues with this genre at all. See Altitude, Dog Fighter, Hammerfight, Wings of Prey, H.A.W.X., Battlefield 2, Bad Company 2, Call of Duty etc.

So yes, aside from cannibalizing potential markets... are there any cases like that you can comment on? Because I don't know of any.
I know of many in the mainstream markets - but not in side genre like space shooters, sims etc.

And calling everyone "the mob" "narrow minded, ignorant and just plain childish " is certainly not bashing and I'm very childish for pointint that out yes? Maybe you should actually re-read what you posted. Thank you very much.

But then again, this thread seems to derail even further with each post and obviously even questions go unanswered - aside from being insulted that is. I'm not against casual games and I certainly am not trying to tell others what to do. I do however question some companies decisions to exploit and cannibalize smaller market sectors to rake in the money and I'm also questioning what good that will do for the genre in general.
And yes, I know that there are exeptions. There will always be exeptions. But then again, so many genres died. Not because there aren't exeptions but because they aren't profitable enough. For example if you take a look at how many people are posting here that they feel cheated for paying 50 bucks for CloD... you can imagine how dangerous the situation is can you? It's not about those 10 people moving up to IL-2 from Wings of Prey. It's about the 100.000 not buying CloD. And partly responsible is the situation of not having infinite cash to make a sim that doesn't sell nearly as good as even the most mediocre titles out there.
That said it's odd how you expect others to tolerate your opinion even if you call them names while trampeling over theirs.

So either we have a manner issue here or maybe this just isn't the right forum after all?

[SEE]

Madfish, whatever your opinion regards discussing alternative titles, the OP has abided by the rules set out in the 'sticky'. I am sure that if there were any problems with his post it would have been deleted.

It appears that there aren't!

[Madfish]

Originally Posted by SEE

Madfish, whatever your opinion regards discussing alternative titles, the OP has abided by the rules set out in the 'sticky'. I am sure that if there were any problems with his post it would have been deleted.

It appears that there aren't!

I'm impressed. Didn't take long until the next guy comes, twisting my words and tries to provoke I guess?

I am not, especially in my last post, saying this thread is violating any forum rules. Since you posted since my first posts, where I indicated it might be odd to discuss a direct competitor here, then I wonder why you bring this up now, pretending I want this thread to be deleted?

The thing I pointed out was that apparently some people can't keep their calm without calling names and starting personal attacks. I have no problems discussing some points but instead of doing so names get thrown around.

The thing is that times have changed and while, and I even admitted that naturally there are examples of people that "switched" from arcade to real sim titles, this is not what the big numbers are about. Those few people are not what's feeding a development company over the years either.
The problem with market cannibalism can be seen looking at the MMO genre. Do you know how many MMO's wen't "free to play" just because they couldn't get a foot into the door since World of Warcraft? It's in the dozens.

But whatever, I'll just try avoid that topic and if it makes you, robo and addman happy I'll gladly let myself be called a childish, narrow minded, ignorant, scared mob and fanboy for the sake of mentioning that it's eventually bad taste to discuss this here, knowing how much of a threat that game could prove to be.

But of course we all know that things in real life always turn out perfectly and that no product or title ever caused even almost unrelated products to be in deep trouble. See iPhone, World of Warcraft and many others... Yep.
Irony aside I only want to bring to the table that you cannot simply say it will help CloD. Eventually this could happen - eventually it'll turn out to be that threatening to the financial potential of CloD that we will not see any / many expansions at all. Just because they wouldn't sell in large numbers - maybe, maybe not.

The thing is that I belive only a minority has the equipment at home to play CloD well. E.g. for CEM, head tracking and more. It'd certainly help the title to prepare for the worst, being that WoP will prove to be a nemesis and making it necessary to provide a better tutorial, being more open to the casual players with a nice story campaign, even if it's fictional, and a great multiplayer interface even if the hyperlobby community is very established. Basically getting rid of a few (unecessary as I believe) weaknesses.
[EDIT]Oh and by the way; this includes the community! For example the trend to go full realism all the time. In theory CloD could be as arcade as any other sim out there if you turn off/on all the options necessary. But the problem with that is that it's not as refined for arcade and that the community is VERY very very unforgiving. The idea of arcade or a balanced gameplay even if that means sacrificing a little bit of authenticity is very unaccepted. I remember a lot of occasions where this happened[/EDIT]

That said I'm not sure what causes all this name calling and (mis)judging of people. I wonder if you guys would act like that just sitting together at a table or a bar.

[SEE]

I didn't mean to imply you wanted it deleted Madfish - that would be misleading. You felt it was rude and impolite to discuss another title. I was simply pointing out that it didn't violate the rules in content or context.

The forum has become more liberal and tolerant, there was a time when unofficial Mod discussions were prohibited (IL1946) so the forum is somewhat different now. Threads that are offensive or rude are deleted or at least edited.

I am not getting at you - simply saying its OK to discuss other titles without feeling disloyal to CloD or being considered rude.

[Robotic Pope]

Originally Posted by Madfish

Yes I will daddy. Please tell me when I'm old enough to be allowed to post my opinion.

All fun aside, and I hope you were joking - calling me a fanboy would be... extremely odd.
I can guarantee you there is a great chance that I have more of these "casual" flight games than you or most of the people in this thread. At least I own all of those I listed above as examples (and many, many others, but whatever).
I'm not against casual games at all and I'm certainly not a fanboy of this game just because I feel it's worth pointing out the oddness of advertising an eventually direct competitor here. 90% of the time I play co-op titles these days, no matter what genre.

But thanks for contributing so maturely.

@addman
Instead of insulting me again, and yes, your post was the one that started the bashing... could you just read and actually discuss instead? I haven't seen you answering my question for example:

So yes, aside from cannibalizing potential markets... are there any cases like that you can comment on? Because I don't know of any.
I know of many in the mainstream markets - but not in side genre like space shooters, sims etc.

And calling everyone "the mob" "narrow minded, ignorant and just plain childish " is certainly not bashing and I'm very childish for pointint that out yes? Maybe you should actually re-read what you posted. Thank you very much.

But then again, this thread seems to derail even further with each post and obviously even questions go unanswered - aside from being insulted that is. I'm not against casual games and I certainly am not trying to tell others what to do. I do however question some companies decisions to exploit and cannibalize smaller market sectors to rake in the money and I'm also questioning what good that will do for the genre in general.
And yes, I know that there are exeptions. There will always be exeptions. But then again, so many genres died. Not because there aren't exeptions but because they aren't profitable enough. For example if you take a look at how many people are posting here that they feel cheated for paying 50 bucks for CloD... you can imagine how dangerous the situation is can you? It's not about those 10 people moving up to IL-2 from Wings of Prey. It's about the 100.000 not buying CloD. And partly responsible is the situation of not having infinite cash to make a sim that doesn't sell nearly as good as even the most mediocre titles out there.
That said it's odd how you expect others to tolerate your opinion even if you call them names while trampeling over theirs.

So either we have a manner issue here or maybe this just isn't the right forum after all?

I wasn't joking.
Also you need more information because you facts are wrong.

1. World of Planes is made by Gaijin (Wings of Prey, Apache Air Assault) not Wargaming.net (World of Tanks, World of WARplanes)
2. Gaijin do not have infinate cash . They are a small developer that make niche titles and there will probably be very little advertisment if any. They are in exactly the same position as MG. They are not going to rake in tons of cash. Obviously they hope to do well, but at their heart they themselves are fans of this genre.

Addman did not start the bashing. The bashing started right from the start of this thread by Krupi (Who takes every chance he has to bash WoP even when its totaly off topic).
It happens every thread that someone starts about World of planes. This on was even in the right section of the forum (where we can talk about anything we like by the way). This is not SIMHQ, what happens there cannot be used to allow rudeness here. The original poster was not "Advertising" he was only sharing his interest, it is not rude to do this. What was rude was you saying "Don't make me Laugh" and "if you want to waste your time..."

[Madfish]

Originally Posted by Robotic Pope

I wasn't joking.
Also you need more information because you facts are wrong.

1. World of Planes is made by Gaijin (Wings of Prey, Apache Air Assault) not Wargaming.net (World of Tanks, World of WARplanes)
2. Gaijin do not have infinate cash . They are a small developer that make niche titles and there will probably be very little advertisment if any. They are in exactly the same position as MG. They are not going to rake in tons of cash. Obviously they hope to do well, but at their heart they themselves are fans of this genre.

Addman did not start the bashing. The bashing started right from the start of this thread by Krupi (Who takes every chance he has to bash WoP even when its totaly off topic).
It happens every thread that someone starts about World of planes. This on was even in the right section of the forum (where we can talk about anything we like by the way). This is not SIMHQ, what happens there cannot be used to allow rudeness here. The original poster was not "Advertising" he was only sharing his interest, it is not rude to do this. What was rude was you saying "Don't make me Laugh" and "if you want to waste your time..."

You must be joking again: I'm seriously willing to bet on that I own more casual flight games then you. I'm really not a fanboy.

I know Wings of Prey is not related to World of Tanks, World of Warplanes or World of Battleships (or World of Warcraft to continue the joke).
That doesn't change the fact that a lot of companies are exploiting this very same trend. World of something, Free to Play, from what I heard level system, locked content etc.

WoPl is not final and maybe my selection of words was a bit too harsh at first. But Gaijin entertainment is... well, let's say not an unexperienced newcomer.
They know exactly what they are doing and they aren't financially crippled either. I cannot guarantee numbers but I'd guess on the console alone Wings of Prey sold better than IL-2 on the pc.

You're right though; exactly because I played the games I do know what to expect and commented on it openly. Some people might have misunderstood the flow of context I guess or maybe I didn't explain it properly enough.
I'm very unsure if they are fans of this genre to be honest. But I can tell you that Gaijin puts out a lot more ads than IL-2 ever saw. And this is very sad considering IL-2 is published by Ubisoft...

I definately agree with you on one thing though: it's a damn gamble. Everyone coming out with all these games about the same thing but 2 of 3 having models more or less tuned to make cash over everything is a little scary to me. Even if you say they (Gaijin) like the genre we all know how it ended. With literally dead games and no support. We also know what to expect from Wargaming and their current World of Tanks title.

I also know what the aftermath of this slaughter could be. Maybe I'm just too involved into the industry not only as a hobby alone to be blindfolded in that regard. But then again, maybe it's best to just sit it out and see what happens.
Market cannibalization is a very very nasty thing though. And coupled with a community of hyenas here it is a very frightening state. You still hear people talking about either offline mode, fighting over FMs or sticking with "old school" until the death of the series. I once suggested innovative multiplayer modes only to be laughed at. The new generation isn't "hyperlobby" though.
That's just what get's me thinking.