Thread about the 109

[MadBlaster]

I think this thread is about the cloddy 109 gunsight? I dislike it a lot, but will

try to be constructive since the only way I’ll ever fly CLoD again is if it gets

better than UP3. And the 109 gunsight is on the list of things that need

fixing imho.


Anyway, in old IL-2 109 “gunsight view” you have a nice round crosshairs in a

round circle. When you find yourself in a flat or rolling scissors, you can line

up your deflection distance for a snap shot very nicely. One radius, two

radius, whatever the case may be. We all learned deflection shooting in

IL-2 original? But in CLoD, try doing that in "straps off" view. It is an

exercise in frustration because you lose your peripheral vision on the bandit

and without lead time, you can’t pull lead distance for the snap shot! Also

it does this anthropromorphic time delay thing to simulate your head bending

down to look into the sight. It feels a bit like entering a tunnel (Luthier’s

favorite movie Vertigo comes to mind). So the question I have is, “why is

there a "straps off" view in the game if is so dysfunctional?” The answer I

suppose is to simulate real life tracking shots. But let's face the gaming

reality here. Everyone is using headtracking and most don’t want to be at a

disadvantage when they play online. So they blow off the "straps off" view

altogther because they don’t want to risk losing the SA in online gameplay.

Perfectly rational gaming behavior. So, as has been documented thouroughly

on this board, they either set up a custom profile/custom center in their

head tracking software to beat this “realism” piece of the game and center

up the recticle with the cockpit asymetric and unbalanced looking (my

personal solution) or they just try to get a feel for shooting in the default

view by relying on tracers, lots of practice moving their head in the right

spot and/or guesstimation. The evidence of this is in the 109 videos that

are posted on this board. I was lmao watching a Freycinet video of the

struggle he was going through for a very simple tracking shot on a bomber

six o clock. Laughing because I understand his frustration and noticed he

did not use “straps off” view. This is understandable to me though. Watch

his video “109 against the Wellingtons” on YouTube as he struggles zooming

in and out a bunch of times trying to get the recticle squared up in the

window at the expense of SA (@ 4:20 he says “come on smooth

movements!”) and then along comes a 109 friendly head-on and takes out

his right aileron! Anyway, that’s my take. This is a major bug in the 109.

The “straps off” doesn’t work for gameplay. It is being ignored for good

reason and I hope they get rid of it. We already know the old way works

fine and have years of proof and millions and millions of red Enemy Aircraft

Destroyed. Let's use that old way.

Freycinet’s video (“come on smooth movements”)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HJ5Z...er_profilepage

Edit: please don't take bogus cheapshot at old IL-2 and bring up the ki-43 because it is actually perfectly functional. At wide/default view, the gunsight tube is round and stationary with the crosshairs visible inside when the gunsight cap is off. So, you can still do snapshot and judge distance with the crosshairs. so now you learned something today.

[NedLynch]

The loosen strap view may need fixing, but as you mentioned people are finding ways to work around it.

Love the videos from Soren btw.

However the thread is named the 109 thread, so pretty much everything about the 109 should be permissable, not only the gunsight topic.

[CaptainDoggles]

I dunno guys, until about a week ago I didn't even know the seatbelts function existed.

I fly the 109 on full real with 6dof trackir and have no issues keeping the ring in view.

I was actually just asked about this via PM and I was saying that for me the trick is to unload when you fire. Point the nose where the target will be in a few seconds, center the stick, and then fire as he flies through your gunsight (snapshot). It's a different method than pulling lead on your target, using the elevators to keep it there, and firing (tracking shot).

It's much harder to keep the ring in view if you load factor isn't staying constant, so why put more work on yourself?

[MadBlaster]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

Point the nose... where the target will be in a few seconds, center the stick, and then fire as he flies through your gunsight (snapshot). It's a different method than pulling lead on your target, using the elevators to keep it there, and firing (tracking shot).

Lol. Point the nose, what without the elevators? How many beers tonight guy?

To Luthier!!! I hope you read this thread so far. NO ONE here is using "loosen straps" view. So maybe consider making it a useful view and change it to old IL-2 "gunsight view"? Is it worth doing a poll guys or do you even care? Or is CLoD too far gone. Mabye it's just not going to happen?

[CaptainDoggles]

Re-read what I posted.

Point the nose where the target will be in a few seconds, center the stick, and then fire as he flies through your gunsight (snapshot).

You point the nose and then you unload the airframe for a snapshot. That is different from constantly pulling G's while you fire for a tracking shot.

[MadBlaster]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

Re-read what I posted.



You point the nose and then you unload the airframe for a snapshot. That is different from constantly pulling G's while you fire for a tracking shot.

Bold letter now??? GunRunner would be disappointed.

You don't point the nose to where you think the target will be. You do point the crosshairs where you think the target will be and unload. It is a wing platform not a nose gun btw.

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by MadBlaster

Bold letter now??? GunRunner would be disappointed.

You don't point the nose to where you think the target will be. You do point the crosshairs where you think the target will be and unload. It is a wing platform not a nose gun btw.

Wow are you really going to argue those semantics with me? First of all the 109 has 2 nose guns, both of which are more than potent enough to kill enemy pilots and cripple airframes. Secondly the difference between where the nose is pointing and where the gunsight is pointing is negligible.

You've been nothing but antagonistic. What's your problem?

[Blackdog_kt]

I think they should just change the view to do what it says: tighten straps for less head-shake during violent maneuvers at the expense of how far back you can look, loosen straps to look around at the expense of more bouncing during high-G maneuvers.


As for how to keep the gunsight in view, going back to the IL2 system is as much an artificial and "gamey" solution as the implementation we currently have and i wouldn't support it.

Better to give people a feature like RoF where they can save preset views for each aircraft so that people without head tracking can quickly lean into the gunsight (those who use head tracking already can solve this) and be done with it. It would also be useful for other things, like setting up a custom compass view for the RAF aircraft, or getting a look at hard to access gauges and controls in bombers without having to use the mouse or bend our necks around with head tracking.

[trumps]

i definately prefer the 109 sight to the RAF type, i also use TiR5 and after resetting my center point when jumping into the 109 have less problems keeping it centered than with the RAF jobbies which i find drift out of focus excessively during manuvering and require me to over extend my head position to get it centered again.
regarding the 109 in combat, i pretty much fly the E-1 exclussively these days
it is an absolute weapon, i love it. it is definately a zoom and boomer, and can spiral climb away from anything. the main thing to remember is to always leave yourself an escape route if you do somehow end up in a disadvantageous situation, the 109 will out accelerate and outdive all others, literally leave em standing, so unless i know my intended target is a sure kill i don't get involved in a fight below 2k. this way i have room to dive away if i'm in the poo.
the biggest problem i find is actually spotting aircraft below me at any sort of distance, makes it hard to use effectively at times.

Cheers
Craig

[Daniël]

The placing of the German gunsight is very smart. Your richt eye sees the sight and the left can see the environment. When your both eyes would see the sight the aiming could get more difficult. You can try this by holding two fingers at different distances from your face. If you concentrate on the closest one the furthest isn't clear. If you focus on the furthest the closest isnt clear. The closest finger is the sight, the furthest the plane.
Very simple, but so smart.