UFO's and extra-terrestrial life

[unreasonable]

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

If it doesn't then we are in a finite universe as Charvel has stated, not an infinite one.

What I would like to know is if infinity doesn't exist why would you as a mathematician multiply something by it?


You are funny! Where in any of my posts have I stated that I want or I would like or I believe I live in an infinite universe? (I'll leave that up to one of my or your selves! )

We can only know what we can observe; I doubt that neither you nor I will live long enough to find out the answer.

There are men called scientist that are much more intelligent than either me or yourselves that think about how the universe is made. Some of these BIG thinkers are as we type having the same debate, neither group will determine the answer, neither will we with any certainty!

Cheers!

Actually I agree with what you say about observation - I am simply pointing out that an infinite universe does NOT imply that every possibility is actualised. This just incorrect logic and mathematics.

(Which I think I might be able to demonstrate in another way which avoids having to multiply be infinity....

Suppose that we agree that, if we go to any other single solar system, the probability of finding "unreasonable" and "Skoshi Toger" debating the universe is less than 1.00 - lets say it is 0.10

Then we go to the first solar system we come to and look. The probability of NOT finding the debaters is 0.90 so let us assume we do not find them.

We go to the next planet - the probability is again 0.90

So from the beginning the probability of NOT finding the debaters on any planet of the first two is 0.90 x 0.90 = 0.81

We can continue this process infinitely - 0.90x0.90x0.90 etc

The point is that while the product approaches zero, it never actually reaches zero. So we can never be 100% certain that we will find the debaters. So the argument that an infinite universe must necessarily contain every possibility fails.)

As for the BIG THINKERS - I went to university with many of these scientists (in fact I started out as one myself) and I can assure you that hardly any of them are much more intelligent than you or I, and even the best of them are just as prone to poor reasoning and category mistakes as anyone else when they step away from their narrow fields of enquiry. Stephen Hawking for instance is a famously lousy philospher despite having a brain the size of a planet. He is wasted on physics - we should kidnap him and put him to work on CloD's AI!

[Wolf_Rider]

All you've done there is explain logic as...

At this moment:
Are you at the front door? - no
Are you in the kitchen? - no
If you aren't in the kitchen or at the front door, you must be somewhere else(?) - yes
If you are somewhere else, you cannot be at your computer reading this.


there is, as you offer, a 0.1 chance of finding and an equal 0.9 chance of not finding... in that moment, you have two posbilities... there in, there is a universe in which you do find and equally existant is a universe in which you do not find, and that is just for the planet you chose to look on first, in the solar system you chose to look in first = a multitude of parallel universes just involvolving; will I find?

[unreasonable]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

All you've done there is explain logic as...

At this moment:
Are you at the front door? - no
Are you in the kitchen? - no
If you aren't in the kitchen or at the front door, you must be somewhere else(?) - yes
If you are somewhere else, you cannot be at your computer reading this.


there is, as you offer, a 0.1 chance of finding and an equal 0.9 chance of not finding... in that moment, you have two posbilities... there in, there is a universe in which you do find and equally existant is a universe in which you do not find, and that is just for the planet you chose to look on first, in the solar system you chose to look in first = a multitude of parallel universes just involvolving; will I find?

Now this is mixing up multiple possible observations of a single actual universe (finite or not) with the actual possibility of observing multiple universes

The mistake here is your phrase "equally existent". The possibilities only exist as logical objects, they are not actual. The actual outcome is there whether or not we look, the looking just finds out what is already there. It is just a fluke of language that we can use the word "exists" about logical objects and physical objects, it really does not mean the same thing in the two cases.

This is for classical objects like flight simmers, BTW

[Wolf_Rider]

no... all possiblities from a choice exist equally at the same moment up until the choice is made to proceed along one branch... at which point that branch taken becomes the focus and the other possibilites fall into disfocus - yet they still exist. (the same as the other 2 forward paths extending from a 4 way intersection still exist, with only one forward, the third, path being travelled on)
Its not mixing up the possibilites of a single univers... the "single universe", is the one which is in "focus" - "logic" has nothing to do with it, as there is nothing logical about choice. At the moment of a choice, all possibilities extending from that choice exist equally.

[unreasonable]

No, no, no no... I am sounding like "David Hayward"!

What you are saying implies that you think you exist in some solopsistic world in which your choices define not only your own universe but that of everyone else.

I know some people do actually believe this sort of stuff, even after medication, but it does make discussing reality with other sentient beings a little difficult.

[Wolf_Rider]

now there's no need to be like that.....
you might like to revisit your use of solipsism as well



don't confuse the probability of a spinning coin coming up heads or tails, with the possibility of winning or losing at the landing of it, but while the coin is spinning - both winning or losing exist equally

[bongodriver]

Exactly....nothing exists until the timeline reaches it......once a choice is made or an action taken or an event happens all other possibilities also cease to exist, I do not exist in an alternate universe taking a dump right now just because I decided to go to the bathroom instead of returning to the computer.

[Wolf_Rider]

basically, except one choice leads to another choice and so on (lust like one traffic intersection leads to another one, etc)... but the other possibilities do still exist (in parallel) to the possibility you elected to go with... so while you chose to go take a dump on the way back, in parallel, you also returned to your computer.