Turn Down Head Shake

[pupo162]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

Thank both of you for your real world expertise.

Of course you must realize that on this forum the majority of gamers that haunt the place will discount any real world pilot accounts, because harder just has to be more real...

is this the new trend?? i mean c, you are taking it over the top and acting as youtube-people, who use the same comment and joke over nad over againfor about every video no matter its thematic.

headshake never caused me any confusion, but has it is now its unixistent, it may be overdone in realism, but its good and valid indicator of how much g's you are pulling, since in real life you can feel them and you cant here.

[ARM505]

Well, it's not 'a good and valid indicator' if it pulls me off the sight line, which it wouldn't do in reality. Sure, we can't feel G in the sim - but that is definitely not going to change now, is it? We've already got the ridiculous creaking and groaning of the airframe to tell us 'Hey, I'm pulling G!'. In my experience (admittedly limited with higher G's or aerobatics, but still there), apart from feeling high G in aircraft, you can kind of hear how the aircraft is 'biting' into the airflow more, and you get noises of buffeting more than any creaking. But hey, some kind of harmless feedback helps some people I suppose....To me, having the stick in my stomach at 350km/h+ should tell me something

I actually turned off headshake when I first got the sim, it's just so unlike real life flying. It's better now, but still has stupid parts (the sinking into the pit, and cannon pummeling as mentioned)

[robtek]

One should not forget that firing a center mounted cannon from a multi-ton jet might differ quite a bit from firing wing mounted (very off-center), unsynchronized, cannon on a light (below 2 ton) prop fighter.

[Rattlehead]

Are there any actual accounts from WW2 pilots concerning the shaking of the plane when firing the 20mm?
I've read a few biographies, but nothing was ever mentioned about it one way or the other.

I'd like to see the head shake for firing weapons turned into vibrations instead, at the moment its like driving down a bumpy road. Its not fun. But the concept is great so i hope it gets refined to create a great effect.

[Danelov]

20mm I dont know, but the axe mounted 37mm in the Yak-9T, or the 45mm at the Yak-9K, yes. The IL-2 reproduced very well the effect and in the real planes was really so, that is well documented .The advise was to fire only very short bursts of 2, 3, 4 shells and this machines were in general assigned to crack aiming skilled pilots. Aircobras had also the same effect, with the 37mm but a little less.Of course, that´s very heavy stuff compared to the 20mm.

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by pupo162

headshake never caused me any confusion, but has it is now its unixistent, it may be overdone in realism, but its good and valid indicator of how much g's you are pulling, since in real life you can feel them and you cant here.

I agree with this. If people don't like headshake they can turn it off in their realism options and it has already been toned down once during the patching process. Why does everything have to be so uniform?

I think there's a trend developing where people don't just want options to turn off difficulty settings, they want to make their preferences the default version of things for everyone, so that they can have their preferred settings and still be able to join the well populated servers which, most of the time, run full switch or at high difficulty levels. It seems a bit too much of "have my cake and eat it too".

There are options in the sim, so i suggest everyone uses them to get the difficulty level where they want to for themselves and let the rest of us masochists carry on doing things our way as well.

I don't know how realistic the headshake is, it probably isn't, but it's useful for the reasons described in the above quote. Having no tactile feedback about what the aircraft is doing is equally unrealistic and a long-time trick in simulation is to use visual effects in place of the real-world tactile ones.

I suggest people ask for options to turn off stuff that annoys them, instead of pushing for a blanket change all across the board. Otherwise i might just start campaigning for something equally silly on the other end of the spectrum, having complex CEM, temp effects and anthropomorphic controls enabled by default for everyone.

[ARM505]

You're confusing my request for realism with a request for my preference. My preferences are my own - I select whatever I like in the options menu, that's not relevant to this discussion. But since this is a sim, I relate my real world experience of standing next to 20mm cannon firing on a moving platform (and friends' experience of aircraft mounted cannon), as well my as real world experience of aircraft. Yes, the moving platform was a ship, and no I don't fly Spitfires. Nonetheless, the laws of physics do translate from platform to platform. WW2 cannon did not magically have more recoil somehow (F=ma, m1v1=m2v2 still being somewhat true, quantum physics aside), and sitting directly on top of two modern 30mm cannon is still applicable, IMHO.

The bottom line is that headshake is a realistic aspect, but I disagree with how it's been done based on real world experience. It's just my opinion, based on related experiences. I'm not sucking it out of my thumb, nor do I care about servers using 'full switch'. It unrealistically degrades my ability to aim in this attempt to simulate reality, but there are aspects of it which are realistic. Note the italics. I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater by turning it off. If you want tactile feedback, buy a FFB stick.

[Blackdog_kt]

Ah, that's a well articulated explanation and i don't disagree with what you say there. I wasn't referring directly to you in any case, just making an observation about a general trend in the forums when things get debated: too many people have an all or nothing approach lately, when it's better for everyone if we just have options to turn things on/off at our own discretion

As for the head shake, i too agree it's overdone in some cases. I've been a flak gunner during my conscript service (dual 20mm rheinmetals) and while the guns shake like hell when viewed from afar you don't really feel much when you're sitting on the aimer's seat because all the recoil is absorbed by the mount assembly and recoil spring.


But like you say, i wouldn't want it to completely disappear because it provides a way to transfer feedback to the player that is otherwise unavailable for many people. I think the consensus then would be that we don't need to get rid of head shake completely, but replace some of the shake used for gunfire effects with a milder vibration/blur effect?

I think the rest of it that occurs with maneuvers is sufficiently toned down after one of the patches, it doesn't feel like you're slamming your head against the canopy during maneuvers anymore, it just gives a visual indication about the amount of Gs being pulled.

[ARM505]

Whilst being bored in the cruise today I thought of a possible option - headshake on/off, as we have now, but then a slider for the degree, ie the 'switch' on or off for full switch, but the slider for personal preference. That way, everyones happy. Minium levels of shake for basic requirement for realism (for hardcore server settings), more feedback for those who like it, less for those who don't.

Please note: I have no hope of this actually happening, it's just wishful thinking