Mods discussion, links, etc

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by SaQSoN

There is no such thing, as "good enough". It is either fits technical requirements and "political" restrictions (like NG issue), or not.

My point about mods being "good enough" wasn't meant to imply that they're up to DT standards. Rather, they're good enough that people will overlook their obvious flaws because of what they bring to the game. Right now, mods fill niches which DT hasn't yet filled. That points out obvious directions in which DT should work.

For example, if "frankenplane" German nightfighters and British heavy bombers seem to be popular, then DT should beat the modders at their own game by doing the RAF night bombing campaign properly. Basically, beat the modders at their own game.

Originally Posted by SaQSoN

But, unfortunately, some authors of this high quality mods either do not want their creations in official add-on, or do not want to make the said modifications to their work. In this case, such mods are left out as well.

Based on what you, and other DT members have said, it seems that you are proactively contacting the better modders and trying to recruit them. That's extremely encouraging. I'm just sorry that more modders can't, or won't cooperate.

[SaQSoN]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

For example, if "frankenplane" German nightfighters and British heavy bombers seem to be popular, then DT should beat the modders at their own game by doing the RAF night bombing campaign properly. Basically, beat the modders at their own game.

Well, if DT owned, like 200 Chinese slaves, trained to do 3D modeling, texturing and Java programming, then DT could easily produce a high quality replacement for each franken-plane, cockpit, or object that modders ever put out, in no time.

Unfortunately, DT does not posses such labour resources, while producing a high quality model, accurate to the real-life prototype takes a lot more time, then putting out not-so-well-fit-together franken-stuff.

Not to mention some funny modder-guys, which, every time DT produces a high-quality model of a plane, or cockpit, that have been out before as franken, start lamenting, that DT stole their idea and did not include them into credits!

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Ah yes, SaQSoNs postings are like your first beer ever! Bitter.

Ask yourself: How was your first beer? And how is it today?
You get first used to it, then you like it, then you never want something different.

[Asheshouse]

This is the bit I prefer to read

Northrop Grumman Corporation recognizes that the copyright in a photograph, illustration or painting of a vehicle is owned by the photographer, illustrator or artist, respectively (absent a contractual arrangement otherwise). At the same time, Northrop Grumman, as the manufacturer, owns the trademarks (e.g. "F-14", "Corsair") in the vehicles it makes.

You can make an illustration of an NG product provided you don't use the Trademark.
The reference to video games also specifically restricts the use of the Trademark not the digital illustration of the product.

--but I guess the section "(absent a contractual arrangement otherwise)" may include the NG UBI/1C agreement.

[Maori]

Originally Posted by SaQSoN

Not to mention some funny modder-guys, which, every time DT produces a high-quality model of a plane, or cockpit, that have been out before as franken, start lamenting, that DT stole their idea and did not include them into credits!

List, please, or you are a deliberate liar



Such claims have NEVER happened with frankens.

[Oktoberfest]

I prefer to keep the discussion on NG stuff guys. I'm sure there's a way to go through this in a more or less accurate way. We are I don't know how many brains on this forum, start to think to find a solution.

I'd like to read that contract between 1C and NG. That would allow to find the wek spots and what is allowed or not to do in future patchs. Can't anybody at TD get a copy of the contract ?

[Asheshouse]

Example of NG Trademark from US Patent and Trademark Office USPTO

Note: F4F Wildcat filed for trademark in 2006. Wasn't Pacific Fighters released 2004?
NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "F4F"
Seems that the list of trademark applications relating to US WWII planes was made after the release of Pacific Fighters.
NG claimed that the term was in existing business use. How many F4F's did they sell in 2006?

I think -- but I'm by no means certain -- that those in the US can register an objection with USPTO to NG's continuing use of the trademark on the basis that a) They did not have a continuing business use when it was registered and b) They do not have a continuing business use now. c) When it was registered the term was already in the public domain and in common use.

Mark Image
Word Mark F4F WILDCAT
Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Video games for use with televisions. FIRST USE: 19881001. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19881001

IC 028. US 022 023 038 050. G & S: Toy airplanes; scale model airplanes; arcade games; and stand alone video game machines. FIRST USE: 19881001. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19881001
Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Trademark Search Facility Classification Code LETS-1 FF A single letter, multiples of a single letter or in combination with a design
NUM-4 The number 4 or the word Four
Serial Number 78884021
Filing Date May 15, 2006
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1B
Published for Opposition May 15, 2007
Registration Number 3522645
Registration Date October 21, 2008
Owner (REGISTRANT) Northrop Grumman Corporation CORPORATION DELAWARE 1840 Century Park East Los Angeles CALIFORNIA 90067

(LAST LISTED OWNER) NORTHROP GRUMMAN SYSTEMS CORPORATION CORPORATION DELAWARE 1840 CENTURY PARK EAST LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA 90067
Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Attorney of Record Bruce B. Brunda
Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "F4F" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

Other names registered by NG include:

P-61 Black Widow
P-47 Thunderbolt
F6F-5 Hellcat
Corsair
Enterprise // I wonder if Star Trek paid royalties to use the name?
B-2
Cobra
F14 Tomcat

[batistadk]

There is always a solution, Oktoberfest, but, in this paticular case, it isn't in our hands.

Ok, there is an agreement made between 1c/Ubisoft and NG Corp. I think it was good, because no one wanted to hurt each other that time (PF release, probably). Taking in account how NG Corp. is jealous about 'their' stuff (not the american people stuff too), that agreement was the only way Ubisoft could release the game with planes that Oleg was looking for, with no problems related to NG copyright issues.

But, and now I'm talking just on my opinon, NG Corp. got angry at some point, and started to difficult things. I don't have any idea why it happened, or if it really happened.

Well, about my solution? I little fantasy of my part, but here we go. Someone of the original development team, would be better Oleg himself, schedule a meeting with some big guy inside NG Corp. Then, could find a nice solution to this issue, that could make both sides happy (or at least resigned). If Oleg could show how important this sim is for a lot of people around the world, and the force of the community, that, even 10 years from the release, continues growing, I think someone inside NG Corp. could see the question with our eyes, at some moment.

It's real clear to me, that if I could pilot a P-61 in IL-2 , I probably woulnd't sell it, or make any money with this fact. But, to things happen, all the community would need to agree. To me, it would be like no more pay add-ons, or charged patches, whatever. It already happen, but would must be discussed in a general way throughout the whole community. And of course, give NG Corp. a guarantee that everybody would respect the terms.

Beautiful, for sure, but almost impossible. I could speak with NG Corp. CEO personally , but it's the kind of thing will never happen. Oleg could do it, but he is solving problems with CloD, with his mind in another project. Everybody knows his love for this sim, and it's a dream that come true for him (as it is for all of us too), but we can't ask too much things from him. Then, looks like we we'll take the hard and longest way to solve this problem.

What I can say is: count on me. But, unfortunately, I'm not the kind of guy that can make many things too solve a question. About the letters, good idea, but I'm not north-american at all (just a brazilian bartender living in Guarujá), then, it's up to you guys, to get your papers and pens.

But, I think the first step, IMO, would creat a EXCLUSIVE thread to take this subject ahead, and of course get the attention of Oleg, Ilya, and other important people around IL-2. If we don't have their approval, we can't go further, neither put their names or 1c/Ubisoft labels, in a international rebelion.

It can start right here, just depends on us.

batistadk

[DD_crash]

Read this thread from SIM HQ http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.ph...ml#Post3170621
Also this thread http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.ph...ml#Post3157494
Mr 426cid said on this thread that "maybe they asked" http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.ph...ml#Post3164955 Rising Sun is still going so maybe there is hope.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by SaQSoN

Well, if DT owned, like 200 Chinese slaves, trained to do 3D modeling, texturing and Java programming, then DT could easily produce a high quality replacement for each franken-plane, cockpit, or object that modders ever put out, in no time.

This gets back to my point about giving modders official standards to work from, and trying to recruit less skilled modders as "apprentices" or "outside contractors." I think that a lot of folks who are currently doing sub-standard mods would be happy to work with DT, and work up to DT's standards, if they only knew how.