Mods discussion, links, etc

[SaQSoN]

Originally Posted by Hans Burger

I am a little bit surprised by the logic and the purpose:
1) a new topic on 1C forum is open to discuss mod,
2) after 4 or 5 pages, we are at level of menace

I'll try to get things clear (once again) for the people, who don't care to understand what is it all about through reading other people messages.

DT has nothing against mods for the IL-2 game. DT does not care, if people want to produce their own mod packs. UNTIL this mod packs do not contain models, textures, or program code portions, designed by DT and included into those mod packs without DT's permission.

Certain persons in the mod community, however, openly declare, they will include components, created by DT into their mod packs and do not feel themselves obliged to ask the permission.
DT will not tolerate such happenings.
That is all I am talking about.

[Maori]

Originally Posted by SaQSoN

1C might had reasons not to pursue the violators, DT might have reasons to do so.

Oh, how mature

Grow up!

You talk like all those dick-lawyer heads that have made so much harm to this world.

Mods are not like stealing intellectual property because:

1) they are installed on the same game they come from
2) they do not generate any profit except for the original makers of the game since it sells more
3) they are just a customization of the game, which ONLY works on those PCs that have the LEGITIMATE STOCK game already installed. They are NOT a standalone thing.

Also, may I add that "intelectual property" is a very VERY suspicious entity. You may have contributed original work, OK, I agree, and you should certainly be recognized for it in a fair way... now you did so by using a LOT of knowledge given by human culture, which is NOT of YOUR property. How dare you now claiming 100% property on intellectual products? Highly offensive pretension.

Some highly egoistic companies have genetically modified corn to then claim property over it, when corn was develloped by mesoamerican cultures thousands of years ago. Now these very same people that developped the corn FOR FREE have to pay to a private company for something a stupid lawyer claims they own? Criminal and shamefull attitude if you ask me.

I am really sad to see you are showing a similar attitude.

[SaQSoN]

Originally Posted by Maori

Grow up!

Talking to yourself? That's a bad sign.

Originally Posted by Maori

Mods are not like stealing intellectual property because:

1) they are installed on the same game they come from

Absolutely correct. Until you do it, using genuine developments (which are: built by you 3D models, painted by you textures, designed by you program code, etc.). You can also distribute freely this mods and it would be absolutely legal.

But, if you take someone's else development (3D models, textures, program code, etc.), from another game, or another mod for the same game and distribute it as your own creation, without original author (or copyright owner) permission - now this is copyright infringement, is not legal and can be pursued by original copyright owner with any available legal means.
This stands up, even if you used only a portion of someone's else work without authorization from this person.

Originally Posted by Maori

2) they do not generate any profit except for the original makers of the game since it sells more

Profitability is irrelevant to the matter.

Originally Posted by Maori

Also, may I add that "intelectual property" is a very VERY suspicious entity.

No, you may not.

[Mick]

Originally Posted by SaQSoN

1C might had reasons not to pursue the violators, DT might have reasons to do so.

... what are you waiting for to do it then ...??

... on what grounds would you do it ? ... loss of profit ...???

... does the contract you (still ??) have with 1C entitle you to do so ...???

Can't you just admit once and for all that the modders that greatly revamped OUR (because we BOUGHT it) beloved sim and allowed it to still be alive 10 years after it was released are by no way the ennemies of IL2-46, on the contrary ...!!

[SaQSoN]

Originally Posted by Mick

Reading other people's posts usually helps to avoid being confused.

Originally Posted by Mick

on what grounds would you do it ?

Theft of property, copyright infringement.

Originally Posted by Mick

... does the contract you (still ??) have with 1C entitle you to do so ...???

Contract with 1C is irrelevant to the matter in discussion. If you have no idea what is being discussed, why you join the discussion in the first place?

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by SaQSoN

1C might had reasons not to pursue the violators, DT might have reasons to do so.

I didn't know that DT had its own multinational legal team. Anyhow, I wish them best of luck.

[WWFlybert]

SaQSoN

With respect sir, you are mistaken regarding copyright, intellectual property regarding game mods, at least regarding USA law

In USA, to sue you must show monetary damages, so while if anyone were to take 1C or UbiSoft copyright material and resell it without permission, 1C and Ubisoft would certainly be damaged .. if anyone were to distribute the core game and it's files, even for free, that would indeed be theft and damage 1C and Ubisoft

Mods as distributed, do not work without the player having a copy of IL-2 1946, presumably legally purchased .. if anything, an argument could be made that many more copies of IL-2 1946 have been sold because of mods, than if the game had not been cracked and modded

If game mods could be stopped through legal process, then why did not 1C - UbiSoft do so at the first chance ? ..

I will tell you why .. because this issue has existed since at least 1996, and no software company to my knowledge, much less a PC game company, has successfully sued to prevent distribution of mods or additions to a software. Since Half Life was modded to become CounterStrike, quite a few Game companies have encouraged modding and distributed the tools to do so, because it increases sales and can sometimes allow the company to acquire new content inexpensively and increase sales .. sometimes those mods become a *new* game like CounterStrike

TD does not own the rights to IL-2 1946 .. UbiSoft and 1C do .. if you have not been properly compensated for your work .. you can not sue modders over it .. in fact ...

I find it odd that TD claims it gains no compensation from 1C - UbiSoft for their work, that would likely be against labor laws in all 50 states in USA

I presume you get permission for any unique user content added "officially" to IL-2 1946, any unique textures, 3d models .. anything .. and permission from any user created hacking tools you may have used .. because not to do so would clearly be a violation of those authors' copyright

And while I'm not giving a legal opinion, I have protected authors' rights in another flight sim / game, and have lead 2 mod groups that dealt with IP rights of flight sim / game rights holders ..

I both greatly respect developers rights and software user / modder rights , so please don't misunderstand .. I greatly respect 1C and TD and the work you have done that is IL-2 1946 today

However I can say with complete confidence that TD would get nowhere attempting legal action against mod groups for adding or changing content of IL-2 1946, and to make threats accomplishes nothing except alienating most of those that read this forum

I am not, BTW, an IL-2 modder, however as a player of the game, I find your attitude objectionable, despite greatly enjoying the work TD has done for the game.

I also find it objectionable that the UP 2.01 splash screen does not included the TD logo .. 4.09m includes your work, and I always believe full credit should be given in any compiled work, and thanks given to all authors' work in readme files

[Maori]

Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar

Which hopefully means, that they stop to include DT's work without any asking.

Sorry but this is absurd.

Modders just mod on top of the official stock game. Have they asked permission to Oleg and 1C to do so? well, no.

Why? Because it was supposed to be an action of love towards the game, not vandalism (as some seem to see it). All this of course without any aim of profit. Also to mod is just a customization of the game. Everybody takes for granted and knows the stock game is what allows MODS to exist (let us put aside the guys that everywhere exist and like to just stirr conflict, those shouldn't count in this discussion).

So my question is: are you modders or are you the official game? Begging for permissions reminds me some petty modders. I understand the wish of a respectfull use (most reasonable people does follow such use).

In any case, if you are official, you are BEYOND and ABOVE that discourse. You are the CORE of IL2 and as such, you'll be probably modded as were other parts of the game. If you see it as disrespect, I think you are on the wrong track.

[nearmiss]

Originally Posted by Maori

Sorry but this is absurd.

Modders just mod on top of the official stock game. Have they asked permission to Oleg and 1C to do so? well, no.

Why? Because it was supposed to be an action of love towards the game, not vandalism (as some seem to see it). All this of course without any aim of profit. Also to mod is just a customization of the game. Everybody takes for granted and knows the stock game is what allows MODS to exist (let us put aside the guys that everywhere exist and like to just stirr conflict, those shouldn't count in this discussion).

So my question is: are you modders or are you the official game? Begging for permissions reminds me some petty modders. I understand the wish of a respectfull use (most reasonable people does follow such use).

In any case, if you are official, you are BEYOND and ABOVE that discourse. You are the CORE of IL2 and as such, you'll be probably modded as were other parts of the game. If you see it as disrespect, I think you are on the wrong track.

DT has licensing permissions with IL2 developer to make changes throughout the entire IL2 application source code. That means DT updates in every situation I am aware have also made changes in the programming, not just applying some new aircraft, object or editing some other graphic elements.

The DT updated versions should be looked upon as the CORE IL2 application, because core changes are usually part of the updates. Therefore, other 3rd party mods should be installed after DT updates and configured accordingly.

Applying mods directly to the IL2 1946 pre-DT updates might work and may never be a problem, that is dependent upon the type of mod I suggest.

It is important to understand the above distinction, and not to look on the TD as just another mod.

In practical terms... TD updated versions of IL2 are the IL2 application.

[Maori]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

It is important to understand the above distinction, and not to look on the TD as just another mod.

In practical terms... TD updated versions of IL2 are the IL2 application.

I am glad we agree, that is exactly what I mean