12 barrel rolls...

The 110's seem the worst. They do more tricks then what you'll see at a Red Bull air race!

[Blackdog_kt]

The rolls are weird, no question about that, but i don't really get how some people have trouble keeping up with the AI even with the tested FM discrepancies.

That being said, i fly with CEM and temp effects enabled so i have to use "by the book" power settings and invest some time to know what i'm doing when i exceed them, otherwise the engine will die.

Maybe this allows me to squeeze some extra performance out of the aircraft, i don't know, but i can certainly fire up the QMB and dogfight Hurricanes in a 110, run them down when they try to flee, force them to overshoot when i'm defensive, bounce them when they decide to RTB as their fuel and ammo gets low and generally stay alive, wear them out and get 2-4 kills on each such mission just fine. With the 109 i really have no problem at all and in a similar fashion i can score anywhere between 1-3 bomber kills on each intercept mission flying a Hurricane with the constant speed prop and get the two-stage prop Spits to accelerate and stay around 250mph during an entire dogfight. All that without even customized load-outs and convergence.

That being said i didn't just fire up a combat mission when i first got the sim, i usually try every aircraft in free flight first to see how much i can get away with, sort of a familiarization flight if you wish.

I don't know how much more or less realistic our FMs are compared to IL2, i'm not an expert, i'm just saying that if you take the time to learn how engines and props work you can certainly squeeze a lot of the seemingly missing performance out of your aircraft, no matter which one it is.

I have a feeling that part of the problem is the FMs needing some fine-tuning (the auto-mixture bug for example) but a big part is also that most of us don't know half of what we should be doing to really get top performance from our rides. There's so much complexity involved here that half of the times i thought something was a bug i ended up discovering it's actually a realistic feature after some googling and reading up on the issue.

I think that what this sim needs first and foremost is just two things: further performance optimizations and an amended documentation. If we have playable frame rates and know where we stand in regards to aircraft behavior on certain matters, it will be a much smoother ride from there on out and much easier to identify what needs fixing by the devs and what needs reading some documentation on our part.

[ICDP]

Originally Posted by Pbs

This is not real-life AI, this is AI-that-simulate-another-player. In online you will fights against humans, and they will do exactly same things. Also, there is bots in online battles, with same AI.

So, this AI perfectly prepares gamers to online battles, and perfectly replace real pilots in online. If you want more realistic AI for offline campaigns and missions, ask ANOTHER AI, but this one good enough.

What total and utter bullshit!

AI is NOT solely to train people before they go online. It is to give those who have no interest in going online a way to play SP missions that are believable. When the AI bombers start barrel rolling it makes offliners wince and go play other sims.

The AI needs fixed, it's that simple. Oh and online players are not the epitomy of a simmer, by far the majority play offline. Or maybe you think the handfull of people who play online are a majority? If it is then the total sales of CoD must be in the hundreds.

Even Oleg said onliners are only 5% of total sales.

[reflected]

Agreed, total BS.
The majority of players play offline. they need AI planes to fight against. If you make a 109 do 12 consecutive rolls at the rate of an F16 it certainly is hard to shoott down, but do you seriously think that is the point?! I'll make an FPS game where your targets do backflips and run at 60 mph while they vibrate in rainbow colors. Hard to shoot down? yes. Fun? no. Realistic (the point of a simulator, you know)? hell no.

And what a pathetic excuse: "it's too hard to make an AI that is challenging while subject to the same FM and physics." LOL....LOL!
Man, fire up good old BoB2 WoV and then we can talk.

[CharveL]

Originally Posted by reflected

And what a pathetic excuse: "it's too hard to make an AI that is challenging while subject to the same FM and physics." LOL....LOL!
Man, fire up good old BoB2 WoV and then we can talk.

Ok shhhhh, it's all gonna be ok...settle...settle...

You just killed your point by bringing up BoB2:WoV but I get what you're saying. We all know the AI needs improvement (well, most of us) but it's not simply a matter of giving every single AI the same FM as the player and letting them go.

I'm starting to suspect that amongst their other feature implementation issues with the rushed release, that there is only one AI routine for all the planes until they can plug the numbers in for each type. Just a bit of a guess though it makes some sense why bombers will try to evade the same way as a 109. This also means a lot of tweaking for individual planes.

Bottom line though is, out of necessity, they have to make a simpler, canned FM for AI unless you just want to have only one or two other planes in the air. It's basically a shortcut that, when tweaked properly, will act more like the real plane should once they fix them.

[Mysticpuma]

Originally Posted by reflected

Man, fire up good old BoB2 WoV and then we can talk.

Agree completely. Singularly the best AI I have ever fought against in a WW2 Theatre.

Getting onto the 6 of a 109 and then 3-minutes later being low on the deck in a Rolling Scissors manouevre and not gaining or losing advantage, now that AI was simply brilliant!

I still wait to play CloD as my Graphics card isn't up to scratch (getting a 560 Frozr next-week), but to hear that we have the same Barrel Roll routine is just another piece of the Hangman's Scaffold for me

However, IL2 reached fruition after 10-years....so there is time

Cheers, MP

[unreasonable]

Originally Posted by ICDP

Even Oleg said onliners are only 5% of total sales.

Unfortunately they make 95% of the noise in the forums.

I also get the impression that the devs (including Oleg) had little or no interest in SP, given the failure over so many years to address any of the glaring and easily fixable shortcomings in IL2 1946's SP game. I am hoping for better this time around but I am not holding my breath.

[blampars]

I play this game for about 45 minutes every time a patch is released. Last patch, I watched a 109 do the 8 rolls and shoot into the sky like a f16. I Shut the game off right after that. That's just stupid.

Ill fly online at some point, probably when I can get more than 27fps looking forward in the cockpit. Looks like the AI isn't going to be too much fun nor immersive any time soon

[Blue Scorpion]

Originally Posted by Pbs

This is not real-life AI, this is AI-that-simulate-another-player. In online you will fights against humans, and they will do exactly same things. Also, there is bots in online battles, with same AI.

So, this AI perfectly prepares gamers to online battles, and perfectly replace real pilots in online. If you want more realistic AI for offline campaigns and missions, ask ANOTHER AI, but this one good enough.

Horeshit, this is billed as a simulator; currently it simulates nothing playing offline, it leads to situations that simply never happened, which is NOT the role of a simulation; it currently simulates air warfare during WW2 about as well as HAWX.

It does not prepare players for multiplayer, people using Luftwaffe aircraft against the ai, are in for a serious disappointment, when they realise that hurries & spits run circles around them, leaving them completely un prepared for what they will face online.

There really is no good reason for it, we all know and accept the ai will never be as good as a human, which is why players turn to multiplayer when they want the challenge. Single play offers a structured environment in which to play through specific scenarios, re-creating situations that occurred at the time, which generally do not work well on multiplayer pug servers. Moreover, the number of aircraft involved in the typical single player mission negates many ai deficiencies, through weight of numbers, and the changing situation, removing any need for boosting.

It was this same nonsense used in IL2 which rendered most offline play useless from an historical or simulation perspective. Players could not manually take off and stay in formation on full real, as engines burn out trying to keep up with boosted ai; or enemy aircraft outperform counterparts that walked all over them irl.

Boosting performance and removing physical restrictions from the ai, all because of 1V1 single player performance is a farce, and destroys any notion this can be considered a simulation; it is little more than half-baked, arcade crap.