Friday update and discussions 2011-03-11

Originally Posted by proton45

Tree is just trolling again. The one thing you can always count on, is...the higher the excitement & expectation is, the harder the trolls work at...um, being trolls.

Trolls sense the heightened joy and expectation, and they want to bring people down to their negative level. The one thing you can always count on...the better things look, the harder they work...

Bottom line...I'm not to worried about how good the game will be, things are looking pretty good.

So by asking to see some in game footage makes me a Troll?
By pointing out that the promo movie might have taken advantage of the in game tool that allows you to remove FPS drop that Luthier told us about but everyone else bar a few seem to have forgotton about also makes me a Troll?
Wanting to hear some sound or see a bomb drop somewhere makes me a Troll as well?


So who are the real Trolls here? Maybe its people like you who tell us dont worry guys just go and spend your cash on a game that you havent seen running, Oleg wont let you down, all pure speculation 'pick me ups', from the same old diciples. Well as you can see two weeks away from release and the excuses are wearing a bit thin, even some of the most faithfull are begining to question why we aren't seeing any real footage or hearing any sounds.
In real terms weve seen feck all of how this product performs. We know the Battle of Britian theme as been dropped because the game engine cannot handle more than 21 bombers but obviously for the sheep heads this is not a worry, but for us Trolls its slightly concerning.

[Insuber]

It is rare to see Tree losing his temper. Maybe because he his right:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...&postcount=291

"If we record a video with fraps, it won't give you any idea of the performance since fraps cuts the FPS in half. If we record a video with our built-in track-to-video converter, that records videos at a fluid framerate on any machine in the world."

End of discussion (for myself, of course ).

[kendo65]

Originally Posted by Insuber

It is rare to see Tree losing his temper. Maybe because he his right:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...&postcount=291

"If we record a video with fraps, it won't give you any idea of the performance since fraps cuts the FPS in half. If we record a video with our built-in track-to-video converter, that records videos at a fluid framerate on any machine in the world."

End of discussion (for myself, of course ).

I completely disagree.

Tree wants things both ways - he is asking WHY we have not seen any videos over London with scores of aircraft and lots of action? His conclusion - because the game can't run it. So, in this case, the devs are refusing to use the rendering feature to produce something spectacular.

At the same time he is saying that the videos we have seen are SUSPECT because they could have been made using the rendering feature. So, the devs 'may' have decided to cheat but are limiting themselves to producing only small-scale cheats that do nothing to address the concerns of people wanting to see the flashy stuff.

It makes no sense. It is logically inconsistent.

I also hope that my post didn't come across as a personal attack on Tree. I'm only addressing his argument. I myself have grown a little impatient and am struggling for reasons why there haven't been any official vids showing these things. (Interestingly, there have been unofficial vids showing a lot of these features which may suggest that the devs are suffering from 'perfectionitis'.)

There are 3 reasons I can think of why we haven't seen those vids:

1. The Pessimistic view: The game can't run them. This is undermined but maybe not knocked down completely by some of the 'leaked' vids.

2. They have been trying to tweak and optimise features to the highest level before officially showing them. The 'perfectionitis' argument.

3. The optimistic view: Oleg has decided that he wants to wait until release to achieve maximum impact for the game. People have said this has been a strategy with previous releases.

Truth is none of us actually know. It's the uncertainty aspect that is getting to me. At this stage I expected that any niggling doubts would have been addressed, but I've been wavering between all of those 3 options. I'll be getting the game as soon as it's out no matter what, but it would be good to have more of an idea before then.

[Kikuchiyo]

Originally Posted by Tree_UK

So by asking to see some in game footage makes me a Troll?

a) By pointing out that the promo movie might have taken advantage of the in game tool that allows you to remove FPS drop that Luthier told us about but everyone else bar a few seem to have forgotton about also makes me a Troll?

b)Wanting to hear some sound or see a bomb drop somewhere makes me a Troll as well?


c)So who are the real Trolls here? Maybe its people like you who tell us dont worry guys just go and spend your cash on a game that you havent seen running, Oleg wont let you down, all pure speculation 'pick me ups', from the same old diciples. Well as you can see two weeks away from release and the excuses are wearing a bit thin, even some of the most faithfull are begining to question why we aren't seeing any real footage or hearing any sounds.

d)In real terms weve seen feck all of how this product performs. We know the Battle of Britian theme as been dropped because the game engine cannot handle more than 21 bombers but obviously for the sheep heads this is not a worry, but for us Trolls its slightly concerning.

Tree I think you are a stand up guy if a bit pessimistic at times so please don't take any of this the wrong way.

a) You didn't say it might be taking advantage of the render, rather assumed it was with no evidence one way or the other.

b) I think wanting to hear some sound is perfectly justifiable.

c) No one is saying spend your money blindly. Most have said "you don't have to buy it day one or even preorder you can wait for reviews and the community assessments."

d) We have seen active play videos that have progressed from slide shows over land to running fairly smoothly over land. Furthermore it's not the game engine that "can't handle 21 bombers" it's current PCs that can't crunch the number of calculations required for 21 bombers.

Please, if you are in doubt don't spend your money before you have more information. I will buy it as soon as it is available to me, and I assure you I will be back here either raising hell or praising the game. No one should demand that you just have utter faith that the developers of any game will do a perfect job or that it will be without fault. We must wait and judge the game on the merits. There will be many many people that will get this day 1 and of them I am sure many will report back to this community with their reviews/complaints/praises.

Your concerns are justifiable, and any reasonable person won't fault you for that.

Originally Posted by Kikuchiyo

Tree I think you are a stand up guy if a bit pessimistic at times so please don't take any of this the wrong way.

a) You didn't say it might be taking advantage of the render, rather assumed it was with no evidence one way or the other.

b) I think wanting to hear some sound is perfectly justifiable.

c) No one is saying spend your money blindly. Most have said "you don't have to buy it day one or even preorder you can wait for reviews and the community assessments."

d) We have seen active play videos that have progressed from slide shows over land to running fairly smoothly over land. Furthermore it's not the game engine that "can't handle 21 bombers" it's current PCs that can't crunch the number of calculations required for 21 bombers.

Please, if you are in doubt don't spend your money before you have more information. I will buy it as soon as it is available to me, and I assure you I will be back here either raising hell or praising the game. No one should demand that you just have utter faith that the developers of any game will do a perfect job or that it will be without fault. We must wait and judge the game on the merits. There will be many many people that will get this day 1 and of them I am sure many will report back to this community with their reviews/complaints/praises.

Your concerns are justifiable, and any reasonable person won't fault you for that.

Mate your points are valid and of course and I wont take it the wrong way

However, theres no doubt FPS issues have got better since they dropped all the features, but so far we have only seen a few aircraft over land, previous footage showed total lock ups with just one aircraft over land (the russian game show). This still doesn't fill me with confidence for airbattles with 30+ planes. Insuber obviously reads the forums and you can see in his post above that The movies made by the Devs have no bearing what so ever on how well the game will run, the track to video convertor shows fluid frame rate on any PC.

[Dano]

The 21 bombers was tuned for MINIMUM spec machines, quit making out it's a limit for all machines.

Originally Posted by Dano

The 21 bombers was tuned for MINIMUM spec machines, quit making out it's a limit for all machines.

Thats the max amount of bombers in the campaign by my understaning, surely you would think that if the game runs well, you would increase the bomber amount and let the users turn down all other details/aspects such as ground textures, AA, and resolution etc, rather than reduce the Battle of Britain to a small fight in a pub!

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Tree_UK

Thats the max amount of bombers in the campaign by my understaning,

Yes, because it was tuned for minimum spec machines.

surely you would think that if the game runs well, you would increase the bomber amount and let the users turn down all other details/aspects such as ground textures, AA, and resolution etc, rather than reduce the Battle of Britain to a small fight in a pub!

Are you really expecting to be able to turn up graphics settings on a minimum spec machine? It'll have to run with lowest settings from the off, that's why it's called a minimum spec.

Originally Posted by Dano

Yes, because it was tuned for minimum spec machines.



Are you really expecting to be able to turn up graphics settings on a minimum spec machine? It'll have to run with lowest settings from the off, that's why it's called a minimum spec.

Then you need to take a trip to 'Tree C World' and let me build you a stonking new Rig

[kaisey]

Originally Posted by Tree_UK

Thats the max amount of bombers in the campaign by my understaning, surely you would think that if the game runs well, you would increase the bomber amount and let the users turn down all other details/aspects such as ground textures, AA, and resolution etc, rather than reduce the Battle of Britain to a small fight in a pub!

I don't come here a lot, just for the updates but Tree, do you ever have anything positve to say?

Do you think OM would do anything that would damage sales of this game?

You take a comment made by Luthier and run with it when he was only trying to shut you up.

If you are unhappy, don't buy it