Poll regarding Steam users

[Thee_oddball]

Originally Posted by TheGrunch

So you don't want the game to have a server browser by default/want Oleg and team to waste time programming one when they could just use Steam instead?

just to play devils advocate i dont think the server browser issue is a valid argument FOR steam, oleg is in the gaming buisness and should know that having an ingame browser is statusquo...htyperlobby is a private one man volunteer effort as far as i know so what stops oleg from doing the same?
I dont remember the last time i got a game that did not have its own server browser..oleg and company have been working on this game for years and to not put in a server browser is illogical.
You mentioned UBI puling the plug on server's for some game that was only a year old...im sure the game developer is real happy about that... .that is one of the problems with relying on a third party...you have no control over them.
So do i think this will happen with steam? i very much doubt it but my point is still valid (the more moving parts the more togo wrong) If HL can be done on a free and volunteer basis there is no reason oleg can not do the same and this apply's to updates aswell

[TheGrunch]

Originally Posted by Thee_oddball

If HL can be done on a free and volunteer basis there is no reason oleg can not do the same and this apply's to updates aswell

This is true, but from a developer's point of view, why bother? If you know Steam can do it, and better than you can, what need is there to waste time on it? I bet using Steam has been the plan all along.
Blackdog, I would ask what evidence you have that the decision to use Steam is a *recent* one? Just because we didn't know about it until recently, and indeed just because the work wasn't done until recently doesn't mean the decision wasn't made. After all, Steam integration is not likely to be particularly difficult, Hyperlobby acted as a server browser without any intervention code-wise from Maddox Games at all in the case of Il-2.

[ElAurens]

I have been doing homework on Steam since this mess started.

Been asking folks I know personally that are involved in I.T. gaming, computer repair, and related businesses.

It's the only way to find clear, calm, and reasoned answers to my questions and concerns, as certainly none of the fan boys on either side that are constantly posting on the three main forums are capable of adult discussion.

So far I am pretty much hearing the same thing from all of them.

1. Never install Steam on a computer that is used for financial information work/storage that is not encrypted. QuickBooks came up a lot in this area.

2. Do not install Steam on any computer that you use to store any important personal information of any kind. Financial records, business transaction records, credit card transaction records, etc... or anything that is of deep personal value to you.

3. As a gaming resource it isn't a bad thing in and of itself. But, like any open port to the greater net, it can be used in a nefarious manner.

4. It is not a huge resouce hog, but it does "phone home" and there is additional network traffic because of it.

5. Never make direct credit card purchases for games on Steam. Buy Steam points at a brick and mortar store and use those online.

6. Be careful and it is not going to bite you.


OK.

That's where I'm at for now.

[TheGrunch]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

6. Be careful and it is not going to bite you.

That is pretty much it in a nutshell, but then you could say that about any piece of software that accesses the internet. If you login once, then enable offline mode on a permanent basis and block it in your firewall - if you're that kind of paranoid do remember to do that, I've heard that it can phone home even when it's technically in offline mode if there's still an internet connection, indeed I saw it do so at least in older versions - it cannot possibly compromise your personal information or computer security after that.

[Feuerfalke]

Been asking folks I know personally that are involved in I.T. gaming, computer repair, and related businesses.

That's the cross-section of our forum

1. Never install Steam on a computer that is used for financial information work/storage that is not encrypted. QuickBooks came up a lot in this area.

2. Do not install Steam on any computer that you use to store any important personal information of any kind. Financial records, business transaction records, credit card transaction records, etc... or anything that is of deep personal value to you.

You should never put any of these things on a PC connected to the internet. At least not without a decent firewall.

3. As a gaming resource it isn't a bad thing in and of itself. But, like any open port to the greater net, it can be used in a nefarious manner.

Any open port can. Closed ports as well, if they are not protected.

It is not a huge resouce hog, but it does "phone home" and there is additional network traffic because of it.

From a reasonable friend in the IT-branche I'd expected a number instead of an opinion. Let me give you one: In "standby" that 4 Bit/s down, intermittently > 1 Bit/s up. Assuming you a running a 16k-Modem via phone-line, that's what? >0,1% of your bandwidth?

5. Never make direct credit card purchases for games on Steam. Buy Steam points at a brick and mortar store and use those online.

Why not? Just keep changing your password and don't fall for phishing-mails. Problem solved. Or you want 100% safety? Good luck.

6. Be careful and it is not going to bite you.

Yeah. The same is true for my toaster.

[Extreme_One]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

I have been doing homework on Steam since this mess started.

Been asking folks I know personally that are involved in I.T. gaming, computer repair, and related businesses.

It's the only way to find clear, calm, and reasoned answers to my questions and concerns, as certainly none of the fan boys on either side that are constantly posting on the three main forums are capable of adult discussion.

So far I am pretty much hearing the same thing from all of them.

1. Never install Steam on a computer that is used for financial information work/storage that is not encrypted. QuickBooks came up a lot in this area.

2. Do not install Steam on any computer that you use to store any important personal information of any kind. Financial records, business transaction records, credit card transaction records, etc... or anything that is of deep personal value to you.

3. As a gaming resource it isn't a bad thing in and of itself. But, like any open port to the greater net, it can be used in a nefarious manner.

4. It is not a huge resouce hog, but it does "phone home" and there is additional network traffic because of it.

5. Never make direct credit card purchases for games on Steam. Buy Steam points at a brick and mortar store and use those online.

6. Be careful and it is not going to bite you.


OK.

That's where I'm at for now.

I'm curious about what your sources think will happen if you run Steam and do any of the above?

Do they believe Steam to be able to somehow intercept your personal data?

Steam is run by a multi-million dollar company not some fly-by-night scamming outfit looking to empty your bank account (unless you purchase so many games as to empty your bank account).

Do they believe that buying games directly through Steam is somehow any less secure that buying through any other Web Portal?

I have paid for games directly through Steam with Paypal, Click-And-Buy and credit/debit cards and have never experienced anything untoward.

I'd be more wary of buying from eBay than Steam.

Oh and the bandwidth thing ... it doesn't consume bandwidth when you need it, ie when you're playing a game. It will not update a game when you are currently playing one.
It does consume bandwidth when it updates your games (automatically or when you choose if you disable automatic updates) and when it updates itself (as long as you're not currently in a game)

Look I don't want to start an argument, I have no vested interest in protecting Steam's reputation but I have been using it for several years on two different PCs and no bad has ever come of it.

I just feel it's reasonable to point out that I have experienced no negatives, only positives.

Oh and most of the "computer repair professionals" and corporate IT admins I have ever met know far less about PCs than any PC gamer / hardware enthusiast worth their salt.

[Biggs]

if nothing else this at least shows how many people (registered on this forum) are planning on buying the game...

208 and counting

[Les]

For those who were asking or wanted to know, yes you will have to install Steam, and activate via Steam, even a retail, store-bought, DVD copy of IL2:Cliffs Of Dover, as we've been told specifically by an Ubisoft representative you will need a Steam account in order to play, even off-line.

This would have been more clear earlier, if it wasn't for the fact that the game will use SolidShield(Tages) DRM validation as well, which theoretically meant, if you never intended to play online, you could have just unlocked your game by submitting a code through the SolidShield system. That's neither here nor there now though, what's done is done. It's up to the publishers to decide what sort of DRM measures and multi-player features they want to implement, and it's up to the customers to decide now whether they can live with having the Steam client installed on their system.

I went through this decision-making process myself several years ago when I went out of my way to buy the retail disk version of Red Orchestra to avoid having to use Steam, only to find (due to lack of research) that even the retail disk version required activation through Steam. At that point, despite being annoyed at the lack of choices available, I decided to bite the bullet, install Steam and see what happened.

And what happened? Not much, just spent way too many hours playing a @#%^ing excellent game online, until the community faded and I got too pissed off too often by niggling annoyances that are just part and parcel of playing that kind of game online, and uninstalled it.

Steam stayed installed though, as I began taking advantage of it's special offers on other games that it's sales made affordable to buy, download, play through and discard (or keep installed as simple time-wasters). That was about five years ago now.

I'm not the kind of person who just installs programs willy-nilly, I like to keep a fairly lean-running machine, and there is other stuff I could have installed that I've chosen not to because I haven't been able to keep track of where it is and what it's doing. Steam isn't one of them. For me, it's pro's have outweighed it con's.

Something else I've come to realize is, if I'd never played the original IL-2 series, manually downloading and installing and patching it and flying online through Hyperlobby etc. If I'd never done all that, and saw it for anew today, and it was a Steam download only title, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it.

But, conversely, at least part of my resentment over the involvement of Steam in the new series is a nostalgia thing for the fun I've had over the years running the original IL-2 series the old-fashioned way. It's something I've grown attached to, there's history there, personal and shared, and if something's going to mess with the continuation of that, it had better be bringing with it some real benefits, or be keeping itself the hell out of the way as much as possible.

Also, Steam, with it's convenience and mass-appeal, is at the same time, for me, associated with cheapness and disposability and crass commerciality. And these aren't characteristics I readily associate with something like the IL-2 series. Yes, IL-2 is just a 'product', but it's also, essentially, a labour of love and something that I believe deserves, and has been given, more respect and dedicated attention than what it's going to get when it's inexorably linked up with Steam.

It may not mean much to anyone else, but as I look at it, there is also an aspect to all of this that is like the ending of an era, which is making moving on into different areas harder than it might otherwise be. The original Il-2 series managed to stand, and continues to stand, on it's own, even within the flight-sim genre, and it deserves to.

But the new series that's just beginning, is being born into a different world. And not an easier world for it's kind of thing. And quite frankly, f*#% anyone who abandons it now. It's like the child of the father you fought side by side with for years, through all those battles, all those victories and losses, look after it and give it a chance to grow into something that can make it's own place in a world more hostile towards and dismissive of it's kind's existence than ever before.

In this context, Steam is nothing. At worst, a mere hindrance , an extra button to push or background process running, nothing compared to what getting over it can facilitate and allow to keep growing.

Those of you who are abandoning the new IL-2 series are effectively abandoning the future of combat-flight-simming and leaving it to the wolves. It will only be a self-fulfilling prophesy if all that you feared about it's being compromised, or it's outright demise, comes true.

There's also absolutely no chance for the development of any work-arounds to the 'issues' some people are currently having if so many people bugger off now it has a negative impact on what Oleg and company can afford to do in the future.

Anyway, I've spent so long writing all this I've had time to remember how unimportant the whole subject is in the wider scheme of things, and what a strange form of entertainment this is.

Que sera sera.

[Codex]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

I have been doing homework on Steam since this mess started.

Been asking folks I know personally that are involved in I.T. gaming, computer repair, and related businesses.

It's the only way to find clear, calm, and reasoned answers to my questions and concerns, as certainly none of the fan boys on either side that are constantly posting on the three main forums are capable of adult discussion.

So far I am pretty much hearing the same thing from all of them.

1. Never install Steam on a computer that is used for financial information work/storage that is not encrypted. QuickBooks came up a lot in this area.

2. Do not install Steam on any computer that you use to store any important personal information of any kind. Financial records, business transaction records, credit card transaction records, etc... or anything that is of deep personal value to you.

3. As a gaming resource it isn't a bad thing in and of itself. But, like any open port to the greater net, it can be used in a nefarious manner.

4. It is not a huge resouce hog, but it does "phone home" and there is additional network traffic because of it.

5. Never make direct credit card purchases for games on Steam. Buy Steam points at a brick and mortar store and use those online.

6. Be careful and it is not going to bite you.


OK.

That's where I'm at for now.

You got solid advice ElAurens, I love point 6. It's just ironic that the same thing can be said about using Firefox, Google Chrome, IE etc and yet I'd bet my bottom dollar we all use those browsers everyday to surf the net, by goods etc without even thinking about it.

The point is, it's not as scary as everyone makes it out to be. Yes be careful but also don't stop yourself from enjoying CoD. Besides if the unthinkable did happen and your credit card got cleaned out, every Bank that offers it's customer's credit cards must adhere to Credit Consumer Laws, and they're geared heavily in the consumers favour, you will be inconvenienced a bit if it did happen but your guaranteed by law to get your money back.

[Jaguar]

Steam has some advantages and has parts of it that I detest. I truely understand why some will not support it and why others think its fantastic.


I use steam for games like NTW and ETW. I hated the fact when I first began that steam rewrote any changes that were made on my end with the game. Did I want to go online with my newfound changes. No I did not. Any way I put that game on the do not play shelf for a long while. Until i found this

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/index.php

Man did they bring life back into enjoyment of my DVD purchased games. Stop by just to see whats happening. For those who are a little concerned about Steam and the modern abilities of others. I don't even worry about not having a vanila game that I can use online.
I'm more than positive that offliners can find some helpful hints around in this brave new world. Make your own choice and let others do the same. What are you really afraid of when you have to have it your way?