Head Tracking with Cliffs of Dover

[MadBlaster]

Originally Posted by SEE

This argument is a bit like two pilots in a turning battle and neither can get the angle.......one has to break.

I will post this in both threads as they are essentially the same and, as a user of both systems, have been the 'devils advocate' for too long. So both sets of combatants read the following! I added the RED text to version violation.

Text strings bearing explicit notice of "EyeControl Technologies" copyright (former name of NaturalPoint, Inc.) can be found within previous versions of the library in question. However, the strings have been encrypted in recent versions of the library to hide them. The continued presence of the strings can be verified by connecting to the interface and reading them.

The creators of FreeTrack did not deny copyright infringement at this time.

During early releases FreeTrack V1 the source for their TrackIR Enhanced DLL was publicly viewable. The copyrighted strings were clearly visible in the file NPClient_h.pas. Since that time, the developers have removed public access to the TrackIR Enhanced DLL in their source control system , while the rest of their source remains open to the public.

You can assert your rights all you want. That doesn't mean there aren't exceptions where these rights are not enforceable. Again, Copyright Act section 107 "fair use" clause when the use is non-commercial or section 102 where you have no rights in the first place. Also, the fact that Freetrack creators did not deny copyright infringement doesn't make it so. Also, TIRViews.dll must be a a hack too??? The difference here is, this is not non-commercial fair use. This is commercial. A profit motive. Big freakin' difference. NP is trying to sell their products, so they made a hack to games so user can have 6dof for games that did not intend to have it. What's their legal cover??? More NDA for all these games??? B.S. Also, why does NP make their dll freely available to the public if they are so worried about copyright violation by Freetrack??? Maybe because they don't want to get called on it??? Also, why does W-R keep quoting TRIPs??? Good luck enforcing that. We aren't in the NWO yet. Nation states still follow their own laws when the rubber hits the road. And W-R is really streeeetching that case anyway. He assumes WTO would override section 102 and 107 of U.S. copyright Act and that the U.S. would actually enforce such a thing. Where's the precedent??? There is none. More B.S.

[robtek]

All this legal mumbo jumbo doesn't lead anywhere as we aren't in the position to do anything about it.
It was admitted here that FT Users did, and still do, use the NP route to access games that dont use the free accessible freetrack.dll.
As this is done by the users and not by FT it is not possible to prosecute.
So the users using the hacked NP-route are legally safe but maybe morally questionable.
As it was explained quite a few post earlier, NP is not the big multinational company with unlimited resources as some posters her seem to imagine.
It is a company that started with software/hardware to ease the life of disabled people which then expanded to this small niche-market flight-simulation.
Still it is a small company and when the kinect system from MS is pushed into the market, this company is history, along with other companies that serve this market.
Then we all will find out what a real monopol is, when the price for kinect units has risen to the real costs plus the gain MS can get then without rivals.
I believe some will then look back with grief to this time with petty discussions.

[brando]

Originally Posted by robtek

All this legal mumbo jumbo doesn't lead anywhere as we aren't in the position to do anything about it.
It was admitted here that FT Users did, and still do, use the NP route to access games that dont use the free accessible freetrack.dll.
As this is done by the users and not by FT it is not possible to prosecute.
So the users using the hacked NP-route are legally safe but maybe morally questionable.
As it was explained quite a few post earlier, NP is not the big multinational company with unlimited resources as some posters her seem to imagine.
It is a company that started with software/hardware to ease the life of disabled people which then expanded to this small niche-market flight-simulation.
Still it is a small company and when the kinect system from MS is pushed into the market, this company is history, along with other companies that serve this market.
Then we all will find out what a real monopol is, when the price for kinect units has risen to the real costs plus the gain MS can get then without rivals.
I believe some will then look back with grief to this time with petty discussions.

Quite so! And when Windows 10 comes down the chute and makes all your Kinect software unworkable, so that you have to shell out for Kinect IV to keep using tracking - viz. Win XP, FFB1 and the gameport interface - then I expect we'll hear all the same stuff again. The only problem by then will be that no-one is listening.

[LoBiSoMeM]

Originally Posted by robtek

All this legal mumbo jumbo doesn't lead anywhere as we aren't in the position to do anything about it.
It was admitted here that FT Users did, and still do, use the NP route to access games that dont use the free accessible freetrack.dll.
As this is done by the users and not by FT it is not possible to prosecute.
So the users using the hacked NP-route are legally safe but maybe morally questionable.
As it was explained quite a few post earlier, NP is not the big multinational company with unlimited resources as some posters her seem to imagine.
It is a company that started with software/hardware to ease the life of disabled people which then expanded to this small niche-market flight-simulation.
Still it is a small company and when the kinect system from MS is pushed into the market, this company is history, along with other companies that serve this market.
Then we all will find out what a real monopol is, when the price for kinect units has risen to the real costs plus the gain MS can get then without rivals.
I believe some will then look back with grief to this time with petty discussions.

Now Kinect is "underpriced"... A "dumping" attempt to dump a product that don't have competition yeat... A beautifull way to justify NP overpriced HT solutions for sims.

Please, don't try to discuss economics... This example makes me laugh a lot!

[robtek]

Well, it will be not "to dump a product that don't have competition yeat" but to corner a possible market!
By the way, can you proof in any way that TIR is overpriced???
I mean with facts, not your fantasy.
And dont you try to compare with a mass-market webcam, apples and oranges!

[MadBlaster]

Originally Posted by robtek

Well, it will be not "to dump a product that don't have competition yeat" but to corner a possible market!
By the way, can you proof in any way that TIR is overpriced???
I mean with facts, not your fantasy.
And dont you try to compare with a mass-market webcam, apples and oranges!

Can you prove to me that NaturalPoint is a little itty bitty company? Show us their financial statements. AFAIK, they are privately held, so you won't be able to do that. So, I'm supposed to take your word for it they don't make much money for such a small company, when you at the same time question my morality for using Freetrack when it is perfectly legal to do so. At least this time you prefaced it with "maybe". So, "maybe" I'm making headway here.

[robtek]

Nice try, MB.
There was a calculation here in this thread, by swiss, i believe, that gave a plausible account of the possible money NP is making with TIR.
Thats at least 100% more than we've seen for the proof of greedyness!
And it isn't legal to use the NP software with FT, it only can't be prosecuted.
But keep on grasping for straws to keep your morality intact, if it is okay for you to bent legality when you don't have to fear prosecution, so be it.
Just don't tell everybody it is perfectly ok to do so.
Btw, i have to admit that i am no angel myself, but thats private and i dont advertise.

[MadBlaster]

Originally Posted by robtek

Nice try, MB.
There was a calculation here in this thread, by swiss, i believe, that gave a plausible account of the possible money NP is making with TIR.
Thats at least 100% more than we've seen for the proof of greedyness!
And it isn't legal to use the NP software with FT, it only can't be prosecuted.
But keep on grasping for straws to keep your morality intact, if it is okay for you to bent legality when you don't have to fear prosecution, so be it.
Just don't tell everybody it is perfectly ok to do so.
Btw, i have to admit that i am no angel myself, but thats private and i dont advertise.

Frankly, NP profit margin is irrelevant from my point of view. It is a simple make/buy decision where I do a differential cost/benefit analysis relative to my pocket book. That has nothing to do with NP profit margin and the reason I didn't jump into that conversation. The fact that adonys uses it in his purchasing decision is an example of exogenous factor in play. If he doesn't want to buy TrackIR because he feels NP profit margin is too high, well more power to him. If you feel NP is an itty bitty company that needs your donation to survive and it gives you feeling of moral superiority, well more power to you. These aren't economic rational reasons in my mind. But they do drive purchasing decisions. Now, if you want to buy TrackIR because you don't want to build one and you want customer support, that is rational imo. If you want to build Freetrack and save some money, that is also rational imo.