Head Tracking with Cliffs of Dover

[LoBiSoMeM]

Originally Posted by CharveL

As a long-time beta tester with NP I just wanted to raise a couple points with the caveat that, despite what might seem like a conflict of interest, I think free tracking alternatives are a great thing because not everyone can afford a TIR.

My personal experience with the NP guys is they are a really dedicated group of innovators in a smaller company that have managed to carve out a niche for themselves by creating a product that improves our simming experience. From what I've seen they are always willing to help their customers personally and often beyond what's called for, and seems a bit unfair when they are made out to be villains simply for protecting their work. Either way, that's for anyone to make their own opinion based on their own experience.

Anyway, I think it comes down to what works best for you considering the tradeoffs. FT has the benefit of being less expensive or even free if you already have a webcam and don't mind fashioning your own clip/reflector system. It's a great way to introduce yourself to head-tracking and see the benefits it provides for immersion!

Obviously the TIR gives the benefit of a more comprehensive and intuitive setup being specifically designed and supported by developers for seamless integration. The software gives better control over all axes and key-binding options, not to mention auto-detection of whatever game/sim you start which also adds to convenience, although perhaps minor for some.

The other factor to keep in mind is that the hardware itself relieves the CPU from much of the heavy lifting, providing up to 120hz refresh rate depending on the model, which improves your apparant in-game framerate considerably from the 24fps - 30fps (give or take) of your webcam. On a CPU intensive sim like CoD you need all the spare cycles you can get. With that said, some people can't tell the difference between a framerate of 20fps and 60fps so YMMV.

NP did all the legwork to make headtracking possible including wooing developers into adding the necessary hooks into their software, otherwise there would be no Freetrack, so I don't exactly blame them for not wanting to let others ride off of their work. On the other hand, if developers will support FT using FT's hooks then power to them and everybody is happy.

It's not NP technology, please! That's because NP never can put your "company face" and said what's wrong with Freetrack.

The same to some game devs. Why in hell can't Oleg or Ilya come to this forum and answer costumers questions about suport for Freetrack interface?

Bohemia Interactive GIVE FULL FREETRACK SUPORT INTO ARMAII AND O:A, so, please stop the stupid talking about legal or "moral" issues regards NP and Freetrack. We aren't stupid, respect our intelect. Or you really believe that BIS have the risk to be sued for Freetrack native suport? Read this line of the changelog of ArmAII 1.05 patch:

" [60457] New: FreeTrack support using FreeTrackClient.dll "

Other thing is the fact that NP give some kind of "help" to devs, and they have SHAME to come into public and assume a lot of things...

Isn't hard to create a clear picture about that, sorry. And it's a shame. The next step to NP will be bother Madentec?!?!?! Or better: "proprietary math"?

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...10.1.1.50.9280

By the way, 120FPS here with PS3Eye... A cheap cam.

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by LoBiSoMeM

It's not NP technology, please! ~

its NP software, and that is what they are protecting, with every right to do so

Originally Posted by GHarris

Regarding Wolf_Rider's comments that Freetrack developers should "make the approach" or "seek inclusion - professionally"... "Professonal approaches" are what people with something to sell do. The Freetrack developers are not in it to make a profit. I don't understand why they *should* be expected to "approach" a sim developer. Freetrack is out there, it's open source, that's all that is needed. Oleg and his colleagues have heard of Freetrack (they must have done) and all they need to know about implementing it is readily available to them.

I am a supporter of Freetrack because I simply prefer an open and free (as in speech) implementation of head tracking to a proprietary one. A proprietary implementation will inevitably be abused by the people in control of it at the expense of current and past customers. As was the case when TrackIR started encrypting its data stream and made versions 1 and 2 of its TrackIR hardware incompatible with new games when they could otherwise still work. The controllers of a proprietary implementation might also seek to stifle competition from other proprietary or open implementations. As was the case when "Implementation of the "HeadTracker" interface <was> canceled at the request of NaturalPoint." in DCS: Black Shark.

wot, use somebody elses' (FT) gear without their permission, or include a method of FT gear getting stuck into somebody elses' (NP) software.

nah... the professional thing to do is to make the approach and seek inclusion, offering a proper product.


NP were protecting their rights... if the FT software did its own work, instead of syphoning off from somebody elses', you'd find it would have been a completely different ballgame - be sure

Originally Posted by julian265

They've wooed developers into implementing an interface which ONLY ACCEPTS TIR, which was the logical thing for them to do.

correct and completely understandable for NP to professionally make the approach to seek inclusion and then protect their software, after all, they made the effort. Would it have been too hard for FT to develop their own interface in the beginning, instead of hacking another?

Originally Posted by julian265

However, they're still lobbying for the exclusion of a generic interface (like mice/joysticks/throttles/wheels/pedals use) - which is holding back competition and development.

do you have some proof of that?

and

how does that gear get to work in the games at the moment and has been for many years now?

[MadBlaster]

One year ago:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...devices+BoB%3F

[MadBlaster]

Another way to go about this. Simply bifurcate the head tracking interface functionality out of the stock game. Make it mouse only. Then offer two separate add-on packages. One for TrackIR users with their encrypted/proprietary interface and the other for Freetrack users with their free-use interface. The game is priced at ~$50 right now. So, say drop the price to $48 and price each headtracking add-on at say $2 dollars each as an example. This will maximize sales of the game and give the user more flexibility in how they want to play the game.

[SEE]

Originally Posted by MadBlaster

Another way to go about this. Simply bifurcate the head tracking interface functionality out of the stock game. Make it mouse only. Then offer two separate add-on packages. One for TrackIR users with their encrypted/proprietary interface and the other for Freetrack users with their free-use interface. The game is priced at ~$50 right now. So, say drop the price to $48 and price each headtracking add-on at say $2 dollars each as an example. This will maximize sales of the game and give the user more flexibility in how they want to play the game.

I certainly wouldn't object if it was possible to do! Like Lobisomem says, I too don't quite understand why there has not been an official response - certainly stirred up a lot of debate in the past looking at that thread you linked to. Ah well, only a few weeks to go and all will be revealed!

[Royraiden]

If a mod sees this please close it, its useless.

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by MadBlaster

Another way to go about this. Simply bifurcate the head tracking interface functionality out of the stock game. Make it mouse only. Then offer two separate add-on packages. One for TrackIR users with their encrypted/proprietary interface and the other for Freetrack users with their free-use interface. The game is priced at ~$50 right now. So, say drop the price to $48 and price each headtracking add-on at say $2 dollars each as an example. This will maximize sales of the game and give the user more flexibility in how they want to play the game.

I think that is what quite a few people seem to be saying... "FT, make your own software and interface, and make it independantly and being dependant on other peoples' software and interface, or parts of. Also don't use the NP SDK to do so."

[MadBlaster]

They already have made it. Apparently it is being used by other game developers now. I see an SDK folder where I have Freetrack saved on my computer. There is a stereo button in the GUI to activate the freetrack interface. So, it must exist.

The problem is that 1C has given us all the impression that TrakIR interface will be bundled (again!) into the game with the video advertisments it has provided to us. It has done nothing to lead us to believe that we can use another headtracking solution such as Freetrak. That is the relevant issue here. I don't think there is a "professional" representive from Freetrak to do a business deal with 1C because it is free license. So, if we want to get an answer from 1C (and I do believe this is the goal of this thread) then we the users of Freetrak and other solutions should be pointing out economic reasons why it would be prudent to do so. I see no economic reason to bundle TrakIR interface again. Why, because there are now legitimate competitive options available and if you exclude them you disenfranchise a segment of the market that would otherwise buy your game. It is not like 2001. Speaking for myself, I've been playing IL-2 4 years now, have plenty of money to invest in the hobby. But I have no intention of spending $150 for something I can do for $40. That is just the way I am. I'm a saver. My mortgage will be paid off soon while my friends lose their house. Simple rational budgeting. 1C should address this segment of the market because there are a lot of us who will just keep on playing the old game because it has become quite good with the efforts of DT and the "other guys" and frankly, there simply hasn't been enough time to enjoy their latest efforts now that we are all distracted with the release date of CoD. So, I suggest we steer this thread around and get 1C's attention. And the only way I think we can do that is to point out how they can make more money if they go in this direction. Or we can party down with Johnny Lee again next year with the same old arguements. I do like that video. A classic youtube moment imho.

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by MadBlaster

They already have made it. Apparently it is being used by other game developers now. I see an SDK folder where I have Freetrack saved on my computer. There is a stereo button in the GUI to activate the freetrack interface. So, it must exist.

how does this interface work? how was it developed?

Originally Posted by MadBlaster

I don't think there is a "professional" representive from Freetrak to do a business deal with 1C because it is free license.

the software must have been created by someone and hosted on a site created by someone...