I Want my 4.09 Spit FM's back.........

[Jumoschwanz]

If you lose a fight when you are flying a Spitfire in IL2, it is because you were either bounced or the other guy is a better pilot.

I trust that successive official patches to IL2 Sturmovik are generally for the better. If you want flight models that are poorly researched opinions and magic-wands then use one of the mod packs.

Or get into hacking and make your own magic MODs for IL2, then you and your buddies can start up a server for it, preach it as the gospel, further divide the community and sucker new IL2 pilots into your BS world.

[swiss]

Originally Posted by Jumoschwanz

If you lose a fight when you are flying a Spitfire in IL2, it is because you were either bounced or the other guy is a better pilot.

I trust that successive official patches to IL2 Sturmovik are generally for the better. If you want flight models that are poorly researched opinions and magic-wands then use one of the mod packs.

Or get into hacking and make your own magic MODs for IL2, then you and your buddies can start up a server for it, preach it as the gospel, further divide the community and sucker new IL2 pilots into your BS world.

Ever used "dullknife" as an alias?

[Krt_Bong]

Since I have no real world data to compare to I can't speak to historical accuracy, but I have tried a couple of quick missions to find out for myself what the spit MkV 1942 and the 109G 1942 can do and despite the fact that the AI can pull more G's than you can I have seen that it is almost impossible to stall the 109, my joystick profile (i flew both a/c on the same one) is aprox. 16 32 65 88 100 100 100 100 for elevators. On the Spit I pulled an easy and a hard loop and it stalled before I got halfway thru the joystick travel at the top of the second and went thru some crazy manuver ending up in an inverted flat spin that I was immediately able to correct but, the 109 I did the same thing and pulled 1 1/2 loops before it started to shudder but it never completely departed. For some the fidelity of the joystick used may be a factor and I have a 2 year old X-52. I tried flying a 109 against another 109 and again the AI can do impossible manuevers to follow but I eventually shot him down. In Spit vs Spit again the AI does things that even though I stayed with him (Barely) I could see he was getting away with what was impossible for me to follow (repeated rolling and switching left to right).
My thoughts, it's a 10 year old sim with amazing detail but also hindered by the degree to which things can be simulated. I hope that in the new sim it will be equally hard to fly either aircraft due to their unique designs and that there will be no uberness to either for people in forums like this to whine about which is verging on the ridiculous. I would be willing to bet that 80% of people whining in here about FM's have never actually flown a real airplane and don't really know what they are arguing about except what they think it should be
I like WWII aircraft, I have built and flown models of them, for me there is no difference to my feeling of awe when I see one - no matter what air forces used them.
Some people on these Forums seem to think because they like a 109 that makes anything else a crap plane compared to it, some folks like to think that Mustangs are the greatest plane ever created. I happen to like Mustangs and won't argue the finer points but we all know that 109's and 190's were their greatest nemesis and they were flown with great skill by the pilots who flew them. The Spitfire is undoubtedly the most beautifully designed weapon of war ever created, an entire nation was saved from extinction by them and by the Hurricane, to me trying to insult people by using derrogatory names shows immaturity and insensitivity to those who fought and died for their country and really is beneath the level of respect most would give if talking face to face. After all when it's all said and done we're talking about a video game, not real life. As much as we want to simulate it, it's still just sitting in front of a computer. Can we all try to act like Adults in our discussions and not act like children trying to instigate a playground brawl?
a quick edit here, I did try this same test in 4.09 and it seems like the roles are slightly reversed, the 109 stalls at about the same point that the 4.10 Spit does

[engarde]

Always amusing to read what someone who's never flown a real spitfire in wartime trim considers how it should fly.

One of the most repeated omg its been nerfed! posts, ever.

who says history never repeats.

Unless you have -actually flown- a spit, you're just interpreting someone else interpretation. Your opinion is in no way based on fact. Yet you demand a change when you have no idea what the accepted standard actually is.

Same old same old.

Seems fine to me in game.

[Azimech]

Even cars that come off the assembly line the same day all drive different, so all planes will fly different as well, especially the ones that were hand made or used different materials.

So even if you have flown a real Spit, you have flown an unique example with unique characteristics.

Imagine each time you fly a plane it has randomly generated characteristics (within the range of the specifications, obviously). That will teach people to be cautious in seeking it's limitations.

[Fenrir]

Originally Posted by engarde

Always amusing to read what someone who's never flown a real spitfire in wartime trim considers how it should fly.

Unless you have -actually flown- a spit, you're just interpreting someone else interpretation. Your opinion is in no way based on fact. Yet you demand a change when you have no idea what the accepted standard actually is.

I don't like it either, I wish I had flown a real Spitfire or had some nugget of data that gave us the designed Spitfire trim speed, however sometimes the only way to find an answer is to extrapolate from various sources, and make best guesses from interpretation.

TD have made a decision about the aileron neutral trim speed that they interpreted from the manual. Nowhere, nowhere, does it say in that manual, that the max economical cruise speed and rpm is the setting at which the a.c is trimmed. THEY INTERPRETED AND INFERRED IT.

On that note, I'm trying to correct it, based on EDUCATED and INFORMED analysis and some RESEARCH. I can't give you a figure but I'm trying to find it and in the meantime, demonstrate the questionable logic of having an a/c - any a/c - trimmed for such a low relative speed in it's performance envelope.