Friday 2010-11-19 Dev. update and Discussion

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

I think a combination of both for sure. The flight path of bullets gets very erratic when the mach barrier is crossed as they slow, after only 2 or 3 seconds of flight time. Add the sideways movements of the platform, caused by the firing of guns themselves. Another factor being any sideslip of the aircraft during the firing, introducing strong crosswind on the projectile. These would all combine to give a pronounced image to the viewer.

Could such a noticeable spiral be reached?
Maybe....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aqJw...E3248F&index=7

I can't say whether this is the camera shake causing the effect, but then maybe this is modelled in SoW? In the same way that the different prop-visuals are modelled dependent on the speed the player sets the game to....?
Quite interesting, I can't wait to see this in-game.

[arjisme]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

I don't see how camera shake can explain a continuous spiral pattern in the tracer smoke as shown in that video. It would explain the wiggly tracer light, but that isn't a spiral effect -- it is an erratic wiggle. But for the tracer smoke, as the camera moves across the scene, the smoke remains in its spiral pattern.

I assume the spiral pattern comes from tracer rounds that tumble.

[kancerosik]

Originally Posted by arjisme

I don't see how camera shake can explain a continuous spiral pattern in the tracer smoke as shown in that video. It would explain the wiggly tracer light, but that isn't a spiral effect -- it is an erratic wiggle. But for the tracer smoke, as the camera moves across the scene, the smoke remains in its spiral pattern.

I assume the spiral pattern comes from tracer rounds that tumble.

1st:sorry for my bad english

2nd: The shell comes from the barrell rolling on his own axis.all modern guns (ww1-ww2 included) have this type of barrell.



3rd: the rolling smoke tracer is the consecuence of the fast cooling of the shell (high altitude) plus the "2nd point"

[The Kraken]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

I can't say whether this is the camera shake causing the effect, but then maybe this is modelled in SoW? In the same way that the different prop-visuals are modelled dependent on the speed the player sets the game to....?

The corkscrew tracer smoke is much too regular to be caused by a shaking camera. And if that was the case, they would be in synch with the distortion of the tracer images - hard to compare for sure with low-res youtube clips but it certainly doesn't look like that. I have no doubt that this is a real effect, not a perceived one.

[LukeFF]

I can see a massive profile being created for my CH controllers.

Looking good!

[frentzen2000]

I mean the question of the day is....

shall I purchase this year some "whatever" - christmas presents or shall I wait for the release of BOB SOW? That would be a real good gift
Oleg would appreciate your advise

Thanks for a upcoming great simulation

Best regards and have a good weekend

Manni

[LoBiSoMeM]

Originally Posted by The Kraken

The corkscrew tracer smoke is much too regular to be caused by a shaking camera. And if that was the case, they would be in synch with the distortion of the tracer images - hard to compare for sure with low-res youtube clips but it certainly doesn't look like that. I have no doubt that this is a real effect, not a perceived one.

Well, in 40's aircraft gun barrels aren't rifled?

If so, the projectiles came out of the barrel spinning, maybe because that we see the smoke spirals, isn't?

If I can remember, the first time I saw this "spiral" effect moddled in a game was in FarCry, in the sniper rifle projectiles. Very nice touch!

[winny]

Love the screens.

Can't believe the spiraling tracers is still even under debate. It's a fact.

Lots of things contribute, wing vibration, airflow across the guns, uneven burning of the tracer round, G-force, barrel condition and barrel rifling all contribute to this effect. Most bullets used at the time were also tail heavy (so they tumble easier) which can exagerate the wobble.

[philip.ed]

Thanks, all, for the input on the tracers. Lots of helpful knowledge shared here.
Winny, I wasn't sure on the issue mate. I've had many people swear against the spiralling tracers, stating that the effect is down to the camera shake in gun-cam videos. As has been shown, a lot of evidence suggests that this might have added to the effect, but the effect is definately there

To be Devil's advocate, how large can the spiral get? I'd imagine it's a lot smaller for the .303's and gun-cam videos that I've seen would support this.

Thanks in-advance.
I love the contrails too, they look great.

Oleg, are all effects shown 3D?

[winny]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

Thanks, all, for the input on the tracers. Lots of helpful knowledge shared here.
Winny, I wasn't sure on the issue mate. I've had many people swear against the spiralling tracers, stating that the effect is down to the camera shake in gun-cam videos. As has been shown, a lot of evidence suggests that this might have added to the effect, but the effect is definately there

To be Devil's advocate, how large can the spiral get? I'd imagine it's a lot smaller for the .303's and gun-cam videos that I've seen would support this.

Spiral size is dependant on the size of the projectile. Because they travel nose first they can only spiral by a few degrees off centre before they nose would drop too far and the bullet would start to tumble (nose over tail). The zig-zag effect you sometimes see is due to camera shake but as your video shows, no ammount of shaking camera can recreate a spiral smoke trail.