Orcs on the March thread

[atlatea]

Because leadership is truly a king statistics in Impossible mode, unless you are doing something tedious and/or cheesy

Yeah, totally agree on that.

Back to shamans (goblin and orc), there are many ways to go againts them. But, seriously, they appear late in the game, and at that time, most of you already have many tricks againts them. Imo the hardest battle againts astral attack is in elon (againts the orc chief), the rest are easy compared to that battle.

Goblin shaman is not that overpowered if they become your enemy (in fact, they're just normal as there are many ways to handle them, well, if you look at the dragons in montero, they do way more dmg than them), but they're insanely overpowered if you use them (especially if you're warrior or paladin), reason? 25k-30k dmg in 2 turn in late game (not counting the phantomed one)

As for orc shaman, they are ok to me.

Well, here is another cheap way againts them, just have a minimum of 35 mana, several green dragons, invisibility, posion skull spell or any other spell you deem necessary, ball of lightning/dragon dive/dragon tail/mana accelerator. Cast invisible on green dragon, then you're free to do with them (shamans), before invisible disapear always remember to replenish mana with green dragon then cast invisible again, repeat that, should win easily without much thought and no losses.

[loreangelicus]

Aside from bypassing resistances, does their astral attack bypass the Defense statistic as well?

I'm thinking all these new astral-damaging units are hurting the mage and paladin class more. This is because on impossible, aside from Invisibility tactics, most tactics from these two classes rely heavily on buffing their units. The warrior does have enough of a leadership advantage to rely primarily on unit damage and "resurrecting" troops, and just minimal buffing.

See attached battle I had with Elenhel in KBAP with warrior on impossible. Droids and undead, -50% (vulnerability) and 0% base resistance to magic. And yet they wiped the floor with these magic-wielding enemies and hero in just 14 rounds at no-loss.

I'm still getting excited with all these talks about the new goblin and orc units. I sure hope they do put up a good fight as warrior on impossible usually just means the only serious battles that you have are the initial battles at the lower levels and the boss fights.

[atlatea]

I guess it somehow bypass defense, but not all defense (i've done the test few weeks ago), since i've got different value of astral attack dmg that attack my two stacks, and both from the same source (same number).

Paladin class is also on par with warrior in case of mass resurection, though you need to take lv 3 resurection skill (+30% if not 35% to paladin prayer skill and inquisitor resurection skill). Though imo all classes have their own way to resurrect.

All 3 classes are equally capable to deal with those shamans. I've played all those three several times on impossible no loss games.

However, if you talk about which class is the best to utilize them to their full potential, the winner goes to warrior, and paladin as a close second, and sorry for mage.

Well, by the time you meet those shamans, usually you already at lv 45 or higher, and at that lv, all 3 classes pretty much mop the floor with their own unique way.

Shamans are not overpowered as your enemy, they are overpowered as your ally (especially warrior and paladin).

[Kings Bounty Hunter]

Originally Posted by atlatea

I guess it somehow bypass defense, but not all defense (i've done the test few weeks ago), since i've got different value of astral attack dmg that attack my two stacks, and both from the same source (same number).

Paladin class is also on par with warrior in case of mass resurection, though you need to take lv 3 resurection skill (+30% if not 35% to paladin prayer skill and inquisitor resurection skill). Though imo all classes have their own way to resurrect.

All 3 classes are equally capable to deal with those shamans. I've played all those three several times on impossible no loss games.

However, if you talk about which class is the best to utilize them to their full potential, the winner goes to warrior, and paladin as a close second, and sorry for mage.

Well, by the time you meet those shamans, usually you already at lv 45 or higher, and at that lv, all 3 classes pretty much mop the floor with their own unique way.

Shamans are not overpowered as your enemy, they are overpowered as your ally (especially warrior and paladin).

Wrong

They are overpowered regardless.

Have a nice day

[ICECOOL]

Originally Posted by loreangelicus

I'm still getting excited with all these talks about the new goblin and orc units. I sure hope they do put up a good fight as warrior on impossible usually just means the only serious battles that you have are the initial battles at the lower levels and the boss fights.

Dont get excited so much There is about ONE orc battle in opposite to AP - that is orc hero in shettera. And thats it. This pisses me off. I felt cheated from producers "NEW ORC CAMPAIGN", "ORC ON THE MARCH", etc. - bullshit! There are no orcs marching in KBCW!
Besides all that talk about those goblin shamans is not that they are unbeatable or smthg. I kicked their asses , but they have done so many damage that there were not enough mana to revive all my units, so I`ve got some tolls and I got pissed from that.

[atlatea]

Dont get excited so much There is about ONE orc battle in opposite to AP - that is orc hero in shettera. And thats it. This pisses me off. I felt cheated from producers "NEW ORC CAMPAIGN", "ORC ON THE MARCH", etc. - bullshit! There are no orcs marching in KBCW!
Besides all that talk about those goblin shamans is not that they are unbeatable or smthg. I kicked their asses , but they have done so many damage that there were not enough mana to revive all my units, so I`ve got some tolls and I got pissed from that.
Reply With Quote

Let me guess, you use mage class?

Because as warrior and paladin, it's no problem resurecting units againts scrounger, maybe because their leadership is very high thus it means more phantomed paladins (mass resurection), and besides they can reduce astral attack dmg easily (caution 3 and holy armor 3).

As for mage, i think mage is more inclined to use single stack of unit than the other 2 classes.

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by atlatea

Let me guess, you use mage class?

Because as warrior and paladin, it's no problem resurecting units againts scrounger, maybe because their leadership is very high thus it means more phantomed paladins (mass resurection), and besides they can reduce astral attack dmg easily (caution 3 and holy armor 3).

As for mage, i think mage is more inclined to use single stack of unit than the other 2 classes.

I had a tough time against them as a mage, but I beat them by using the phantom feed to buy enough cannon fodder for my army to slowly whittle them down.

Then I threw a Black Hole or two. I never used offensive magic in that game yet.

Yes, I could have definitely used Caution 3 and/or Holy Armor 3.

Astral attack does bypass ALL defense statistics, except Astral Resistance. Caution 3 and Holy Armor aren't the basic "defense" stat, that's why they work.

Blood shaman does astral attack too, normal orc shaman are just mere magic attack.

Right now I am rolling around with a very powerful orc team that is basically creaming everything until I run into goblin shaman.

I run into the goblin shaman team... somehow, not able to reach the 400 goblin shaman stack in time while killing the other stacks and and I lost my entire 85 Paladin stack in a SINGLE TURN, and take severe casualities across the board.

Of course, this time I didn't have the chaos crown or ghost armor yet, so I had to go on a mission to specifically look for these items. Mind you, even with them, I will still take severe losses unless I deal with that stack properly.

I don't know about you guys. I have never lost an entire stack that easily before in this game before.

My mage lost his stack of 10 black dragons IN A SINGLE TURN WITH 70% astral resistance.

That said, orcs ARE overpowered. Therefore, I shall abuse.

Orc Veterans are like the most ideal phantom units in the game now. Plus, with Adrenaline Level 3 and Moldok, they become some of the fastest and strongest no retaliation units in the game. I just killed Driller in 7 rounds, Impossible Mode - Warrior, No-Loss.

Paladin, Goblins, Orc Veterans. Goblins were indeed the main power house thanks to Zeroing In, but throwing in an extra 3-4K damage from teh Orc Veterans helped a ton.

The reason WHY orcs are strong is because of the way Adrenaline works. A lot of "cannon fodder" tactics end up feeding the enemy with more adrenaline, thus, they do more damage and gain far more insane abilities.

Goblin shaman do 20-25 Astral Damage per goblin, and they can attack up to 3 times if they have level 3 Adrenaline. The computer always starts with around level 2 adrenaline too. 400 Goblins * 20 = 8000 damage * 3 = 24000 damage in a single round if you have no astral resistance and that's the WORST case scenario. Afterwards they can still attack too, but that's nothing.

[ICECOOL]

Originally Posted by atlatea

Let me guess, you use mage class?

Yep

[atlatea]

I don't know how both of you play your mage, but from my observation mage class is inclined towards using single stack unit. Most peoples play mage like that. Armies are for warrior and paladin.

And the best dragon for mage is emerald, not black nor red, emerald dragon + invisible works best with mage (that's one of cheap tactic beside eviln+BK or BD+spells), because mage has the highest mana, can cast more than 1 spell/turn, their offensive spells are the most dmg ing (due to having highest int), also must be remembered that high lv offensive spell need very high mana (again, it's mage expertise).

I don't know why your entire stack got killed by 24k astral dmg with 70% astral resistance, that 24k astral dmg should become a joke with 70% astral resistance coupled with caution 3 (any class can take it, all my mages always have caution 3), if you have holy armor 3 triggered, just laugh at their dmg.

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by atlatea

I don't know how both of you play your mage, but from my observation mage class is inclined towards using single stack unit. Most peoples play mage like that. Armies are for warrior and paladin.

And the best dragon for mage is emerald, not black nor red, emerald dragon + invisible works best with mage (that's one of cheap tactic beside eviln+BK or BD+spells), because mage has the highest mana, can cast more than 1 spell/turn, their offensive spells are the most dmg ing (due to having highest int), also must be remembered that high lv offensive spell need very high mana (again, it's mage expertise).

I don't know why your entire stack got killed by 24k astral dmg with 70% astral resistance, that 24k astral dmg should become a joke with 70% astral resistance coupled with caution 3 (any class can take it, all my mages always have caution 3), if you have holy armor 3 triggered, just laugh at their dmg.

Sorry, I was talking about two different armies. None of my mages have caution, as it costs too much for me normally and usually I have phantoms and such to tank, so I don't usually need caution.

I might add it in though, since it seems like that would help against Ktahu's first attack.

All of them have frenzy now though.

Normally, if I were going to do a solo stack build, like solo black dragon, then I would take caution as a mage.

Well, that's just ONE goblin stack. They still got the Blood shaman which also do astral damage.

So, my Warrior with 0% astral resistance and no caution, lost an entire stack to 24K damage.

My mage, with 70% astral resistance, no caution, lost most of my black dragons to the goblins, then it got finished off later on in the same turn by some other imbalanced orc unit.

Either way, pretty crazy stuff.

Yeah, I am not too big a fan of the single stack bit since it seems to lead to tedious and long battles. Although, with the emeralds, it might not be so bad due to the mana recovery trick.

I usually just play mega support as a mage. I really hate how no-loss impossible boss battles take so long for most people because they go with "single stack".