Friday 2010-10-01 Dev. update and Discussion

[Jaws2002]

Originally Posted by Hecke

So for you interaction between developer and potential customer means to constantly say:

Awesome ...
Appreciate ...
Excellent ...
Can't wait ...
Thx Oleg ...
Wonderfull ...
Everything is coming together nicely ...
...

I don't think Oleg can make any use of this sort of comments.
Has Oleg ever answered a post which contains only such phrases? No ...

I don't think Oleg needs feedback from 15 years old crybabies.

Originally Posted by Jaws2002

I don't think Oleg needs feedback from 15 years old crybabies.

But he's right. "Yah, great work!" Ok, how does Oleg and Luthier use that to make the game better? People who post that the font colour is wrong, the Pitot tube is wrong, or that the roads are not to scale are helpful (although not always diplomatic). As it stands now, Oleg has to sift through 30 pages of people giving him High-Fives, and probably gets tired of that and misses out on some actual constructive criticism or feedback.

You love the work, great! Add it to the end of a post that helps the game development process, points out something that needs to be done. Don't have a post that can be used to help the development of the game? This isn't the thread for it!

[philip.ed]

+1 to Speculum. Posts that say 'great' are fine, but if everyone posted that it'd be a bit...dull. Suffice to say, as I have said a number of times, the sim would be worse off because many errors wouldn't have been changed that the community noticed.
Just my 2P.

[Jaws2002]

It's not what you say, it's about how you say it. Some people are plain rude with their "feedback" and is always the same guys.
In all this "Updates" threads you see respectful observations to one aspect or another. For example observation about markings and some aircraft parts. Very respectfuly and with back up info. Soon you see the issues corected or adjusted.
This is what I consider "feedback", not the "this is crap", "that is crap", "I made it better in XX mod" years ago, and so on.
This is not feedback. It's noise. Rude noise. Nobody needs this kind of "feedback".
Many of you confuse the reason for this updates. They are not posted for you to criticize. Specially since you are always told "it's W.I.P." This updates are posted to keep us in the loop with the progress.
Do you think someone wants to get crap from 10 year olds every week for something he is giving for free?
Everything is WIP until you buy the game! Give them a break, they don't owe you nothing.

[philip.ed]

I agree there though; it doesn't take much to be a bit more eloquent.

I don't think I'm rude, am I?

[Jaws2002]

best way to find out: Make a poll.

[MD_Titus]

i do love multi-quote.

Originally Posted by Tree_UK

In reality im just asking the question that most of you want answered.

presumption to speak for all. well done man, hubris +50 for you.

i'm guessing, but can only say personally, that i know these are WIP shots... i will leave off the complaining for when i get the game in my hands and the machine capable of playing it at full settings before assuming that something is wrong. and then we will see many patches after release in the hopefully long long life of the game, correcting any number of miniscule errors.

Originally Posted by Daniël

(Sorry to start the swastika discussion again.)
Wouldn't it be possible to make a downloadable patch for the realistic markings with swastika's? The Internet is 'intercontinental water' so laws don't really matter. (Or am I wrong?) So the people who want realistic markings can download it.

nah, even building it as an addable option would be illegal. however it could be that user made skins can feature it, and that's something that is end user modifiable by it's very nature, rather than built into the engine as a patch would be.

Originally Posted by furbs

Does anyone know if Oleg has shown anything in DX10 or 11 yet? or has he said what settings his screenshots are taken at?...that would at least give us some context to put the shots we have seen so far into.

not as far as i recall, other than landscape. i'd expect it to add bells and whistles and performance. have a look at crysis in dx9 and 10 for examples of stuff, eg "god rays"

Originally Posted by philip.ed

Tree's point is, simply, that he feels it isn't up to 2010 standards. Ideally, Oleg would reply to this and say whether they are still working on it or not. Read between the lines, it isn't hard.

he feels, not everyone else is of the same opinion. can he post examples of a 2010 flight sim to back up his view?

Originally Posted by Dutch_851

Good Grief.
Is anyone prepared to have a sensible discussion at all?

on the basis of evidence and observation... no.

Originally Posted by philip.ed

Fair enough then.

I wonder how DX-11 could affect clouds/terrain.

one of the things seen in dx11 tech demonstrations is the tessilation (sp?), so instead of having a flat 2d texture of paving stones, you actually get the 3d variations between slabs.

Originally Posted by Eries

Wow , what a coincidence....because it looks like your posts were written by a child. Go figure.

zing!

Originally Posted by Hecke

So for you interaction between developer and potential customer means to constantly say:

Awesome ...
Appreciate ...
Excellent ...
Can't wait ...
Thx Oleg ...
Wonderfull ...
Everything is coming together nicely ...
...

I don't think Oleg can make any use of this sort of comments.
Has Oleg ever answered a post which contains only such phrases? No ...

equally, i don't think "painted by a child" is in anyway helpful, in fact i'd take personal offence at that if i had been working on a game for years and wsa told this by, frankly, a rank amateur who most likely has absolutely zero relevant experience.

such posts as you highlight are people expressing a positive and grateful outlook at being shown dev shots. do you think each of these doesn't notice the jaggies etc? no, they are evident to all, but those people recognise a WIP shot when they see it, and have the necessary neurones to remember the previous series of shots and see the progression.

Originally Posted by philip.ed

+1

the easy solution is this: if someone posts their thoughts, don't argue with their view. simple.

and an equally good solution is "think, write, read, think, post".

if you're posting in a belligerent, ill-mannered way don't think you are somehow protected from the approbation of others who are honestly appalled at what they are reading.

Originally Posted by Jaws2002

It's not what you say, it's about how you say it. Some people are plain rude with their "feedback" and is always the same guys.
In all this "Updates" threads you see respectful observations to one aspect or another. For example observation about markings and some aircraft parts. Very respectfuly and with back up info. Soon you see the issues corected or adjusted.
This is what I consider "feedback", not the "this is crap", "that is crap", "I made it better in XX mod" years ago, and so on.
This is not feedback. It's noise. Rude noise. Nobody needs this kind of "feedback".
Many of you confuse the reason for this updates. They are not posted for you to criticize. Specially since you are always told "it's W.I.P." This updates are posted to keep us in the loop with the progress.
Do you think someone wants to get crap from 10 year olds every week for something he is giving for free?
Everything is WIP until you buy the game! Give them a break, they don't owe you nothing.

precisely. should be posted in font size 7 flashing letters before each update.

Originally Posted by Jaws2002

best way to find out: Make a poll.

forums always need polls. lots and lots of polls.

[philip.ed]

MD, show me where I have posted something appalling.
Did you actually read my original post before saying that I wrote something appalling? My first post was a simple question that I had posed to Oleg. There was nothing rude about it.

It is so worrying here how any critisim is recieved, some of you lot are boardering on fanatical, it really is a joke. No offence of course.

[lbuchele]

I'm one of the guys who likes so much Oleg's work that I admits that I rarely criticized his
work.
But I like to see construtive critics from people here and I always will support freedom of speech,even if I don't agree with the poster view.