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#1
08-31-2010, 03:13 PM
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#2
09-01-2010, 01:34 PM
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The point is that these weapons are dangerous. They aren't weapons at all to be honest. What's the next step? Blowing up a whole continent? Destroying Earth? There are science fiction writings about that and in fact we DO have the technology. Only crazy people fucked up beyond all hope would seriously embrace atomic, chemical, biological, nano or even genetical warfare. If you have a discussion you need someone to discuss with. If you have a fight you need someone to actually have a fight with. If you fight a war you need an enemy to have a war with. In other words, you need a target, it's no good to blindly kill things. Destroying random targets, plants, animals, civillians, their property etc. or even more; maybe a whole area, a country, a continent, earth. Only totally stupid mindless zombie brains would ever consider something like that. We are gamers. We shouldn't be talking about stuff like that and have endless political debates over topics that have been researched, forgotten and twisted. If you really believe in the crap some people here are saying then go out there, get a plane and kill innocent people just because of some "digital opinions". The point is that this will make you nothing but a murderer and aviation was and is NOT about murdering. These cases are sad, gladly rather rare (although we see more of it in the Irak and Afghanistan again from the US) and should be avoided were possible. I wouldn't want to play a game where I need to slaughter and kill innocent people, babies, women, elderly people even. This shouldn't be a simulation for criminals but one for people who love flying and seek the competition. As such I wouldn't like seeing the atomic bombs being used on civilian targets. I don't think there is any excuse for these murderous weapons that could potentially turn earth into a place where no life can exist. It wouldn't be smart to put them into the game either. This would cause a huge uproar in the media. A game where your objective is to slaughter civillian life would also be banned here in Germany anyways, for good reasons actually. Just because mass murder, rape and other cruelties happend in wars it doesn't mean they are legitimate.
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#3
09-01-2010, 03:59 PM
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Wow, what a mess of an off topic thread this has become, I'm surprised it hasn't been locked.
Back to the original topic. No, I don't really think the atomic bombings of Japan should be modeled, because well they'd be very boring missions. Fly your B-29 for a few hours over the center of a city, then push a button. Gee thats sounds fun. However, I find the moral objections about it very strange indeed. Its OK to model conventional strategic bombing of cities in IL-2 but nuclear ones are off limits? Yes industrial parks were targeted (by the US, UK indiscriminately bombed Germany at night) but bombs very often missed, and even if they hit their targets, civilian works were killed. So essentially your saying its OK that strategic bombing is in the game, as long as were only killing civilians a few at a time. And just forget about the fact that several times more civilians were killed by conventional bombs than nuclear. And that at least 200 times more civilians were killed by means other than nuclear bombs.
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#4
09-01-2010, 04:08 PM
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The objection is that with conventional bombs you can make it a challenge to aim as precisely as possible, destroying your assigned targets and avoid unnecessary bloodshed. With a nuclear bomb there is no accuracy challenge (as long as you are withing a mile or so) and the only real target is a civilian city. I trust you ca see the difference.
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#5
09-01-2010, 04:23 PM
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#6
09-01-2010, 04:57 PM
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I quite see your point Lobosrul, and I think the very facts you quote are a large part of why it took more than 50 years before the contributions of the Bomber Command was officially recognised. I do not think the similarity was lost on neither on civilians, nor on the military, "Bomber Harris" reputation considered.
It may also have played a part in why Churchill was not reelected in the 1945 July election.
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#7
09-01-2010, 04:57 PM
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Sadly my posts usually end up on the last segment of a page because I think my last one had a couple good points in it.
Yes it's true that conventional terror bombing was done by everyone really. RAF, Luftwaffe and the USA. The point is that there is a difference between the effectiveness of these bombs and also atomic bombs are not just a bomb blast. They radiate huge areas and modern atomic or even hydrogen bombs are deadly. Especially what we call "Schmutzige Bombe" (Dirty bomb) in German, also known as salted bombs in english, are basically horrendous weapons not even aiming at destorying military targets but literally poisoning an area and killing off organic life. I'd be very glad if we could keep the game ethically and morally intact. Yes, a lot of things happened during the 2nd world war and even in many wars after that. But like I said, just because murder of civillians or rape or things like that happened it doesn't mean that these are legitimate actions and should be simulated. In another thread people have been argueing about a little blood effect for pilot kills and here we want to make people "virtually" murder innocents? It's really questionable in my book and I'd be glad not seeing something like that in the game.
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#9
09-01-2010, 10:08 PM
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