nazi info real or fiction?

[Splitter]

Originally Posted by AndyJWest

Did they? Can you actually give any evidence that they did?


Erm, is this the reason we (the Brits) supplied them with early jet engines...


True. If they'd tried it, the armed forces would have mutinied though. This 'continuation of war' was largely a fantasy at the time, and most popular amongst those who would rather have joined the Axis anyway. It has little to do with the military/political realities of the period.

Churchill and Roosevelt were largely in agreement on many things (oh, that's after the US finally decided to get into the war after leaving Churchill to deal with the Nazis by himself for a while). They both came from basically democratic countries with largely capitalist economies. Stalin was a communist and socialist. The two ideologies could not co-exist except in the presence of a bigger enemy: Hitler.

Churchill and Roosevelt/Truman listened to what Stalin espoused and understood his "purges". Therefore, they saw him as a threat going into the future. However, Churchill clearly saw the military potential of the Soviets post war. He could not be their friend but did not want to be their enemy. He attempted on several occasions to "make nice", but he was rather staunchly anti-communist.

WWII showed the old axiom that the enemy of my enemy is my friend on several occasions.

As to saucer research (BTW, no reason to debate this for this game other than as a curiosity, yes?), check out these links for a start. Wikpedia is NOT the end all and be all of research, but some of the important terms and names are there that can be used in further research:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militar...haped_aircraft

http://www.crystalinks.com/silverbug.html

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/...o/avrocar.html

Their attempts at creating these craft seem absurd now in retrospect given their technology at the time. But they certainly thought there was enough there to be explored. All I can think is that at one time the world was flat and man could not fly, but science moves forward.

And yes, if the US and Brits tried to take the war to the Soviets as some wanted, they would probably have been as soundly defeated as Germany had been. History has shown that it is just about impossible to invade Russia and win.

The differing political and economic ideologies between the three "super powers" of the time were never resolved at the end of WWII. The West and East were too different and too distrustful of one another. The two factions (US and Britain vs. Soviet Union) deferred the coming inevitable fight. So over the next few decades, they fought proxy wars against one another and tried to intimidate the other side through military and economic advances. IE, the Cold War.

It's fascinating how allies during WWII would just a few years later become dire enemies.

Splitter

[AndyJWest]

Splitter, are you not aware that Churchill lost the general election in July 1945? What he would have liked to have done at that point is of little consequence.

Adman, from what I can find (not a lot), the Sack AS-6 was a 'An extremely unconventional 1944 design with a saucer-shaped wing and a tractor propeller' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_..._World_War_Two. The Vought XF5U was an unusual design, but hardly a 'flying saucer' in the sense that the phrase is usually used. It was a propeller-driven aircraft, taking off and flying in the normal manner. The concept dates back to the late 1930s (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m.../ai_n13498090/), and was first tried in the US. It therefore has little significance to 'Nazi flying saucers' either.

This then leaves the Avrocar:

Judged by its performance, the Avrocar was an abject failure: it couldn't lift itself safely more than a few feet off the ground, and its bulbous design limiting high-speed performance accompanied by unbearable heat and screaming exhaust noise, made it impractical for the military.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Canada_VZ-9_Avrocar
Effectively an early, very inefficient, hovercraft.

It appears then that all this supposed 'research' resulted in nothing resembling a 'flying saucer' except the Avrocar, which could hardly fly at all.

[Splitter]

Originally Posted by AndyJWest

Splitter, are you not aware that Churchill lost the general election in July 1945? What he would have liked to have done at that point is of little consequence.

Adman, from what I can find (not a lot), the Sack AS-6 was a 'An extremely unconventional 1944 design with a saucer-shaped wing and a tractor propeller' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_..._World_War_Two. The Vought XF5U was an unusual design, but hardly a 'flying saucer' in the sense that the phrase is usually used. It was a propeller-driven aircraft, taking off and flying in the normal manner. The concept dates back to the late 1930s (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m.../ai_n13498090/), and was first tried in the US. It therefore has little significance to 'Nazi flying saucers' either.

This then leaves the Avrocar:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Canada_VZ-9_Avrocar
Effectively an early, very inefficient, hovercraft.

It appears then that all this supposed 'research' resulted in nothing resembling a 'flying saucer' except the Avrocar, which could hardly fly at all.

I don't think I have ever understood why Churchill was shoved to the side. He had been such an effective and popular leader during the war, even a hero to those of us not from Britain. Maybe he was just one of those people who were sent for a special purpose.

And yes, the research into saucer shapes seems to have been fruitless. I am not sure what was learned from it. I would only say that for 40+ years, the flying wing bomber concept was abandoned (to the best of my knowledge). Then the technologies and needs came together to give us the B-2 Stealth bomber.

So I have learned not to say "impossible" but rather "probably impossible right now" . Another interesting thing I have noticed is that during the Cold War there were many "UFO" sightings around the world and now those seem to have gone way down. Maybe someone somewhere was playing around with government funds that have now dried up? I dunno, it's just a thought.

BTW, from what I understand, one of the criticisms of the AvroCar program was that they didn't develop the hover craft aspect and salvage something from the program so good observation!

Splitter

[Sven]

Bringing those planes into BATTLE OF BRITAIN would´t be appropriate I think, it was far too early in the war to have them flying along. Of course fantasy planes are cool because they never existed, but because they did not exist there is no way an accurate flight model can be simulated, right? after all it´s still a simulator, not a fantasy game.

there were some weird and disgusting things going on in the last years of the war, maybe it´s better not to dig up old bodies.
A note to the Hanaeubu III though, I dont think it would ever have flown, to get such thing up in the air would acquire a huge engine, which design had to be all new as well, the Hanaeubu would also be fitted with lots of protective armor adding to its weight.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by Splitter

I don't think I have ever understood why Churchill was shoved to the side. He had been such an effective and popular leader during the war, even a hero to those of us not from Britain.

Thanks Splitter, nice of you to say so.
Churchill was head of a 'tri-partite' coalition government during the war years. After the war, a general election was held to reinstate one of the three main parties as the sole party of government.
Churchill was leader of the Conservative party, which was to the right of centre.
A swing to the left swept Britain following the defeat of the right wing Nazis and Faschists (except for Franco in Spain), which led to a Labour government being voted in headed by Clem Atlee.
I don't think Britain's respect for Winston himself ever waned, in fact in a poll only a couple of years ago he was voted 'Greatest Briton' of all time.
Cheers
Dutch

[Splitter]

Originally Posted by Dutch_851

Thanks Splitter, nice of you to say so.
Churchill was head of a 'tri-partite' coalition government during the war years. After the war, a general election was held to reinstate one of the three main parties as the sole party of government.
Churchill was leader of the Conservative party, which was to the right of centre.
A swing to the left swept Britain following the defeat of the right wing Nazis and Faschists (except for Franco in Spain), which led to a Labour government being voted in headed by Clem Atlee.
I don't think Britain's respect for Winston himself ever waned, in fact in a poll only a couple of years ago he was voted 'Greatest Briton' of all time.
Cheers
Dutch

Thank you for the explanation. It's really rather unfortunate, but maybe he really was just sent here to perform the tasks he did.

I love hearing his speeches and reading about his quick wit. It seems he single handedly kept British spirits up especially before the US finally decided to pitch in (we have no excuse). What a bulldog. A great symbol for the country.

I think my favorite anecdote about him was when an acerbic woman at a dinner party declared that if he was her husband, she would poison his tea. His reply was that if she was his wife, he would drink it . Lady Astor I believe.

True or not, there are a lot of those anecdotes about the man. Just seems like a guy with whom you would like to have a pint...or three.

Splitter

[ATAG_Dutch]

Couldn't agree more!
I'm sure you've already got some of this stuff, but here's a link to free downloads of many speeches.
Enjoy!

http://www.archive.org/details/Winston_Churchill

[winny]

Originally Posted by Splitter

Thank you for the explanation. It's really rather unfortunate, but maybe he really was just sent here to perform the tasks he did.

I love hearing his speeches and reading about his quick wit. It seems he single handedly kept British spirits up especially before the US finally decided to pitch in (we have no excuse). What a bulldog. A great symbol for the country.

I think my favorite anecdote about him was when an acerbic woman at a dinner party declared that if he was her husband, she would poison his tea. His reply was that if she was his wife, he would drink it . Lady Astor I believe.

True or not, there are a lot of those anecdotes about the man. Just seems like a guy with whom you would like to have a pint...or three.

Splitter

It's amazing when you think about it, Hitler, Stalin, Churchill, Hirohito, Mussolini, all in place at the same time in history. I'm not a 'crazy' but if there were ever an argument for fate existing then this would be it!

I think Churchill became a liability the moment WW2 ceased as by that time he was a serious alcoholic. He was the perfect wartime prime minister though.

[leggit]

quote: Winston Churchill:

" I have taken more out of drink, than drink has taken out of me."

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by winny

I think Churchill became a liability the moment WW2 ceased as by that time he was a serious alcoholic. He was the perfect wartime prime minister though.

Hmm, is that why he was again Prime Minister of Britain in 1951, at the age of 77?
He was already 71 at the general election in 1945.
If he did drink a bit, I'd say he bloody deserved it!